Karazhan test run

[JanuZ]

I would like to have a test run to Karazhan either on Tuesday(15th) or Sunday(20th). This would make it possible for TL to maybe join on the earlier raidday if we have healer problems(and he does a BM run before then) and Nefertem might have his computer back by Sunday and gotten attuned(I doubt he will get it before Tuesday). The run/s would go from 20:00-23:00 Server time.

Attuned at the moment:

Druid: Shadowspell, Sandrion(can't raid i think)
Hunter: Lucian, Theoline
Mage: Lexander, Nobekpl, Deloris
Paladin: Tenilia, Marduk, Spiritus
Priest: Soulangel
Rogue: Sabsab, Adularena(can't raid i think)
Warlock: Peukie, Othbarty, Plight, Vanguish
Warrior: Gorion


With this roster we need Gorion, shadowspell and 3 of the paladins/priests  to be present for a raid. Most of the problems with the roster will be fixed when Nefertem has his computer fixed and can start playing again since we will have a 3rd person that can tank. Crystaline just started the attunement but it shouldn't take long to get the 3fragments and TL can possibly step in if it isn't on a raid day on the Priest( I am counting Shadow Priests as healers since most fights in there are mana heavy not healing heavy so the group heal from VE and mana back to other healers + the PW:Shield can easily count as a 4th healer maybe even as a 3rd healer.)

I do believe we can kill the first boss with the current roster if we get the 5 out of 6 persons online that are needed. The second boss is more tricky, it requires some CC of undeads so with the lack of Priests we might need some tricking with Turn Undead/Fear and Hunter Traps.
If we get a run on Tuesday and it goes well we might go for a second test run on the Sunday if the needed people can make it.

Now i don't think DKP is a good idea for Karazhan seeing as you will most likly only be competeing against 0-2more persons for the items. It might be worth it for the Tier4 pieces but we are far away from that and we can record the attendance for raids if we decide to use DKP.
We do need to get a sign up site up though, if gorion( and spiritus) are available for the dates mentioned i would use the forums for the sign up of this test raid. The sign up thread would need to go up tomorrow(13th).

At the same time as this run might be anounced it will be important that a poll comes up at about the same time asking what days people want to raid. If the officers can all raid at the days mentioned for the test it might be worth setting up a poll for those days instead of a multi-choice poll though it might lead to a need for the mult-choice poll later.

[TeaLeaf]

I raid Wed/Thur/Sun/Mion, so oculd only help out on a Tuesday.  I would of course need to get my priest through a Durnholde & BM beforehand as I cannot lock my mage into the SOG Kara run - I'll try to get this done this weekend.  I'd be happy to respec the priest to holy/disc if needed or leave it at shadow.

Re Moroes.  He is significantly more difficult without a shackle, although not impossible, but a shackle makes it so much easier.  The trash prior to Attumen is also a lot easier with a shackle, but not impossible.

TL.

[Lucian]

TL - Bobby needs Durnhold, and I'll happily take a run there today at some point.
 
Secondly, this Tuesday I am definitely unavailable, and Sunday should be available for me.  At the same time, if Ellie is available, she does more dps than me and would be the better choice for the first run.
 
Have you given some thought Teni to what you'll do if more than one from each class turns up? In this case: I'm backing down in favour of Ellie.  But will other classes do the same?

[JanuZ]

well, i am not really expecting a rogue for the first run and with 2pallies+priest+2tanks there are 5spots open for hunter, mage and warrlock in this case warlocks will most likly get guaranteed 2spots while mage and hunter will need to either decide by them selfs or i will go by gear or when the key was gotten. also the extra  spot for hunter and mage will most likly go to the third pally if all the pallies can make it. For later runs i would guess a rotation cycle or first come first get policy.

[Gorion]

ime available for both
 
ques: what will be my role? remember ime a rogue in plate, i can reach 14k ish in "tanking gear" with abit of buffs, but tanking will be sucky
 
re dkp, wasnt planning to do that for kara, but some sort of priority system working with zero tare dkp (or how its called). for 25mans i asked genesis for their dkp system, menedil should be working to make it simpler afaik

[JanuZ]

offtank or maintank Gorion unless Nefertem magicly shows up. It might be Maintank depending on shadowspells gear, he has better spec then you but i don't think he has much of tanking gear.

I am sorry but you are completely useless in all PvE groups except for normal lvl70 instances and maybe in 25man instances. You don't do enough DPS to valid a spot in 10man(though i don't know how often a offtank is needed in kara, might be worth having non tank spec for offtank) and you don't have any CC so every other DPS class is better for heroic

[Gorion]

well, my spec aint moving a mm
 
re dps, i do more then sheepy and oth if i have a feral druid in my group

[Soon Jung]

Not tuesday, I got exam on wednesday, so there is no way that I can attend then. But on sunday I might be available.

[JanuZ]

Gorion you can't count on a feral druid unless they have a Moonkin Druid and those 2 are among the worse geared casters in the guild, go against lexander and you might make 50% of his DPS + locks will most likly have shadow priest to help their DPS.

But it isn't the DPS that makes you useless it is because you don't do anything else. only buff you have is shout and you have no CC. You need more healing since you are hit by close range AoE.

You can atleast be semi useful in heroics now seeing has the changed the Cleaves from 360degree to a cone attack but i would still always take a rogue over you because of more stuns and Sap. And i would almost never take a rogue with me to heroic.

you can be stubborn if you want but i don't understand why you dont respec to at least 0/41/20 especially since you don't PvP that much so you don't really have a reason to play fury

[Bob]

re dps, i do more then sheepy and oth if i have a feral druid in my group

Well, that probably says more about Sheepy and O... Wait a sec, that small gnome can read this... nvm than :flirty: :huggy:

Back on topic: First, good initiative Tenilia :thumbsup2:
As I've mentioned before, I will not be able to join for anything for the next 2.5 weeks - having my last exam the 31st (still need that BM run as well ).

Concerning, at least for these first test runs, they could be simple need/greed. If we see the need for it when we start doing more regular runs later, we could implement some system than.

[Gorion]

you can be stubborn if you want but i don't understand why you dont respec to at least 0/41/20 especially since you don't PvP that much so you don't really have a reason to play fury

ime specced for parry/ iron will/ AM/ deep wounds/ impale and then the rest is fury
 
fyi the druids ime after are the feral combat specced ones (tanks) they have a talent that gives 5% to crit aura and if they have improved i heal myself for 2% of my hp when i crit (6 sec cooldown)
 
 
and by your same reasoning, neither dajo, umbra or every other dps specced warrior is usefull in 10mans, and i strongly disagree with you.
 
plus remember we can offtank single targets, while your so highly valued cc'ers and lexander cant offtank anything. and die in 1-3 hits max
 
and neither can they give an extra 1300 hp via a shout or the extra dps rogues will want via the bshout
 
so, if my spec keeps me from attending any raids, then so be it
 
edit, dont feel offended by my post, ime simply defending myself from someone whos saying ime usless in a certain part of the game

[JanuZ]

I am pretty sure those warriors you mention all off tank in Karazhan or come because they are needed to fill a group(could also be because the system is fair to all players) but they would never be brought for an optimal group.

Most of what i said was mentioned for Heroics and for Heroics you are usually dead if you offtank since the healer can't keep up with 2targets taking same damage in a heroic, If you would offtank you would survive 3-5hits while the mage/lock would survive 2hits. CC = No incoming Damage while offtank is incoming damage. And when you have only 1healer it is usually better to have 1tank for 2targets then 2tanks for 1target each.

As i said the only buff you have is a shout wich isn't better then most buffs other classes bring.
Now it might be wrong of me to call you useless but you aren't close to as useful as other DPS classes that can be brought and you aren't as useful as a warrior that has spent some points in Protection. For 25man it changes a little since you might need of 3-5tanks some times instead of the steady 2tanks in 10man and 1tank in 5man and it would be a waste to have all those warriors prot specced when you can have some in DPS spec and gear when they aren't needed for tanking.

And the healing from Leader of the Pack doesn't really help you since most damage you take is quick burst damage so it does 40% damage and then you get 2%back each 6seconds. It helps some but it doesn't cover the extra damage you take from being in melee and the reason i mentioned that you couldn't take that into account for your damage is because it adds about 3% to your total DPS and isn't fair when comparing against a class that doesn't get a similar buff.

As for the run, we will not be able to go on tuesday since Shadowspell can't raid then. We could possibly try monday but else we will have to go next sunday.

[TeaLeaf]

Well, my priest is now Karazhan attuned.  I can turn up on a non-Gen raid day and spec whichever way you need.  Currently shadow, but also collecting a fair healing set in reserve.

TL.

[Othbarty]

:blink: Oh well, im unable to join tuesday due to exames and such, but i might be able to join sunday.

Lovely initiative Draz! I must say

[Bob]

As for the run, we will not be able to go on tuesday since Shadowspell can't raid then. We could possibly try monday but else we will have to go next sunday.

I would guess Monday is a bit too fast, so next Sunday is probably good. If we get out an informational post about this tomorrow, than people should have good time to start thinking about it and getting ready. I've made an event for it in the sign-up system.

We should specify that this will be no "normal" raid, so we will not use any "priority/rotation" system or anything, and sign-up is not first come first served etc. It will be totally up to the Raid Leader to choose his mix of people the way he sees it best, in order to have the most optimal raid group possible.

When we have had a couple of these runs, and we start getting some folks familiar with at least the first pulls, than we can start thinking about system providing fair/equal chance for participation etc.