Raid/Loot Rules?

[Gorion]

so, we started going to Kz on a regular basis, and i think its for the best to set some rules/guildines
 
copy paste from the old rules raid with some edits:
 
(these rules have been discussed and agreed by the Officers)
 
INVITE RULES

• Invites will be handed out at 19.45 Server time.
• You must be online prior to invites if you are attending a raid.
• Raid members are expected to be outside the instance at 19.45 server time.
• If you are not online when the invites start, your spot will be given to someone else. You will also get lowest priority for the next raid you sign up for, regardless if it would be your turn according to the rotation system.

RAID RULES

• All raiders should be attuned to Karazhan
  
• CTraid or Ora2 + Ktm threat meter + BigWigs are a must. These must be kept to the most updated versions.
  
• All raiders should start the raid at 100% durability. Anyone with a durability less than 100% and without Honoured reputation with The Violet Eye will be asked to repair.
• If your class needs reagents then you should come to the raid with a reasonable supply. This is usually assumed to be a minimum of 20 Arcane Powder/Shards/Candles etc.
• Going AFK without telling a Raidleader will result in a kick.
  
• If the Raidleader is not informed you are AFK, you are asumed to be ready, ready checks might happen at key moments, but don't count on them to show raidleaders you are AFK. - This will result in a kick
  
• If the order to repair is given failure to repair in 5 minutes after the command has been given will result in a kick. (portals and summoning back via meeting stones will be supplied)
• Whisper a Raidleader (And gain an acknowledgement) if you need to leave before the end of the raid.
  
• Join your class channel by typing for example: "/channel SoGMages". The channels are: SoGMages, SoGPriests, SoGWarriors, SoGDruids, SoGWarlocks, SoGRogues, SoGPaladins and SoGHunters. Also Healers must join SoGHealers.
• For the moment, it is not allowed to switch places with other members in the raid for loot from a specific boss.
• Mains will get priority over alts. Alts will only be allowed in the raid if there is a class need.
• Full members will get priority over initiates.

LOOT RULES

• Raid performance is a priority - Specs will recieve priority on gear.
• If you are rolling for an item that will not be used in the raid, you must say on TS and /RA prior to rolling. - Failure to do this will result in a 2 week suspension from raids.
• Officers have the right to force an upgrade on any member of the raid if we think it is needed.
• If there are 2 raid members that an item is going to be forced upon, a roll between them is issued, and the lowest one will win the item.
• Honoured reputation is required before you roll on loot. This is easily achieved. - If an item is going to be Disenchanted, a roll for non-Honoured raid members will be issued.
• Only One item per raid is allowed to be taken by the same person, If there is an unwanted item, someone who already looted something may roll again.

INSTANCE SPECIFIC RULES
 
Karazhan

• All Soul Essence's will be traded to Master Looter prior to any zoning out after raid end.
• If you were switched with another member in mid-raid, you must trade your Soul Essence's to the Master Looter prior to zoning out.

[Bob]

Looks mostly good Gorion :thumbsup2:

In the raid rules:
Perhaps the following could be added:

• Mains will get priority over alts.
• Full members will get priority over initiates.

The point about the class channels is perhaps not necessary, seeing that there is seldom more than two persons in a class? At least not while we're in Karazhan...

Loot rules:
Looks good I think. It is perhaps a bit harsh to say that taking an item for an off-spec without telling will result in a ban - it could be moderated to perhaps at least a warning, and 2nd time a ban or something like that?

About giving rep a priority - could be a good idea. But keeping the limit to honored vs. friendly - that will require people to have been there some times before they will get a chance on the rare goodies, but it won't take the forever either (as you don't need that many runs to get to honored).


When we make a set of loot rules, we should perhaps also look into having a rotation system ready. Now there aren't that many that have been signed up for the last raids, but we should try to offer a fair chance for everybody to attend (taking that those we contact about it manage to improve their dps/gear/etc).

[Gorion]

re :
Mains will get priority over alts.
 
alts will only be allowed to attend on class need

[TeaLeaf]

Re channels:

Suggest including a SOGhealers channel as there is a lot of coordination needed in healing.

Re Loot:

Zero sum DKP.

TL.

[JanuZ]

Most of those rules look fine, missing invite rules though and i think those are the most important at the moment.


"It is not allowed to switch places with other members in the raid for loot from a specific boss. - Chess event might be an exeption to this?"

First of if we will still only have 1run in the future it was my idea to actually do this. People would sign up for specific bosses they needed. Everyone would be expected to be able to attend the whole run and changed in as needed for other boss kills but we would try to fit everyone that needed the boss first then fill up with others. It is an extreme waste having to DE an item because the person that needed it was standing outside in a queue. This will also make it people whine less about long queues seeing as they know they will get some boss kills.


For the loot rules add that if someone is passing on an upgrade because he wants another item and noone else wants and needs the item the item will be forced on him/her. If 2persons are doing the same it will be rolled for lowest roll gets it . DEing an item because some idiot want 1upgrade more then another is pure waste though some exception might be applied, f example me passing on chest upgrade because i would get the Arena Chest Piece 2days later or that it is a very marginal upgrade and he doesn't want to spend money on gems and enchants. If we go with a DKP system this rule is needed while the others aren't though i don't really see the need for DKP here.

Also about the repaired part i think it should be allowed that people can come and repair after attunemen if they are honored. This shouldn't really happen but forcing someone to go back to a city and delay the start of the raid instead of starting and repairing 20minutes later is waste of time.

Only reason for a permanent ban should be Gkick, being suspended from raids for a week or 2 is ok but shouldn't be done often.

Lastly i want to point out that i have been raiding with my alt the whole time. Drazila is still my main though i don't really look at them as main and alt but rather 2characters i play. And i would have raided with drazila if our healer situation allowed for it.

[Gorion]

re ten/draz, that would fall on class need
 
re char switching on bosses is a nice idea when were more established in there
 
force item looks nice too
 
re the repair, maybe.. but afaik its your duty to be fully setup for a raid you are attending, having the right amount of mana/hp pots + food and bieng fully repaired etc

[Bob]

So, as we now can consider ourselves pretty well going in Karazhan, should we perhaps try to get these rules posted as soon as possible?
I guess members want some answers - I've been asked questions about loot distribution and raid rotation, and now that even more people are starting to get attuned, it is important that we get a system going.

It does not need to be complicated at all - all of the rules suggested above are reasonable and pretty straight forward. Looks like we pretty much agree on most of the stuff as well, so I guess it's only to make a final draft and getit out?

[TeaLeaf]

Add BigWigs boss mod to the list of requirements.
We always post the use of the item in raid chat when we want an item -  for example {item} PVP or {item} grinding or {item} PVE raid to help us get an idea of priority.  We also sometimes force an upgrade where it is sensible for that class and we would otherwise appear to DE a decent bit of loot.

TL.

[Bob]

Bump

[Gorion]

just been editing out stuff, re read pls

[Bob]

Looks good Gorion :thumbsup2:
Just two questions:

• If you are not online when the invites start, your spot will be given to someone else. - If a member roation is in effect, you will also loose the next raid spot.

I'm not 100% sure what you meant by that last sentence there... Who will have to pass on a raid spot due to the rotation system is decided when approving sign-ups at the sign-up site.
I think I get what you mean, but it seems like that sentence is just a bit confusing. Don't really think it's necessary to mention it there either?

• CTraid Core + Ktm threat meter + BigWigs are a must. These must be kept to the most updated versions. - Members using Ora2 Must have CTRaid Core installed aswell.

Is CTRaid Core really necessary when you have ORa2? I've used only ORa2 for the last month or so, and haven't noticed any problems with that...?

[Gorion]

q1: i mean if that fex: you were approved for last nights raid and didnt show up in time, and we have say 15 members signing up everytime with 3 of your specific class and only 2 are needed in a raid, you will loose yesterdays spot cos you were late, and the next raids spot
 
q2: some ppl stating they have ora2 have been blanked out from certian queries, such as, /radur /razone /raitem and the /raready  and its annoying the crap out of me. so that would solve the problem

[Bob]

#1: ok, got you now. Perhaps change it to something like this than?

• If you are not online when the invites start, your spot will be given to someone else. You will also get lowest priority for the next raid you sign up for, regardless if it would be your turn according to the rotation system.

#2: I experienced what you described there once - but when I updated to the latest version of ORa2 the problems disappeared.
What I did notice though, was that having both CTRa Core and ORa2 at the same time was very annoying: I got an extra raid interface, double vote messages, double timers and more.
So I don't think this should be required - however, ORa2 must in the same way as CTRa be the very last version. This should be satisfactory.
Or has anyone else experienced problems with it, or heard about what can cause/fix it?

[Gorion]

updated #1
 
still need more info on #2

[Bob]

still need more info on #2

Well, I personally don't have any more info on it. Other than that I know it worked flawlessly for me, and that I than had the latest version (33796), and that it was very annoying to have both CTRa and ORa2...

Perhaps some of the Genesis folks have any experience about this from their raids?