Where to get the cheapest fix of cocaine?

[Lee]

Interesting link there Del, i'm no druggie but i do find statistics interesting. I didn't think New Zealand would be top to be honest. Are all the hobbits druggies or something? :blink: I wonder how this affects the country. Is a higher price a good thing, meaning people buy less or does it just mean people do more crimes to pay for it?

[delanvital]

Interesting link there Del, i'm no druggie but i do find statistics interesting. I didn't think New Zealand would be top to be honest. Are all the hobbits druggies or something? :blink: I wonder how this affects the country. Is a higher price a good thing, meaning people buy less or does it just mean people do more crimes to pay for it?

Now, that is a good point. If the price is that high, maybe due to greater enforcement, it might be a catalyst for other crimes, in order to feed a need. And I guess the only reason anyone would pay the high prices in some countries is because it is exactly that, a need that must be covered. Maybe the best method then, would be to focus more heavily on getting people out of needs, rather than putting those dependent on it down? Or a combo? Or am I being naïve?

[Benny]

It is an interesting chart, but unfortunately it may be a little wrong.

£40 a gram in Britain is expensive. Ignore the obvious connotations from that.

It's interesting that it's cheaper in Canada than in the US, is that supply and demand, surely it takes the same path?

[delanvital]

It is an interesting chart, but unfortunately it may be a little wrong.

£40 a gram in Britain is expensive. Ignore the obvious connotations from that.

It's interesting that it's cheaper in Canada than in the US, is that supply and demand, surely it takes the same path?

Yeah, same path of supply, via the US probably? This fits with the idea of enforcement and risk pushing up prices. Or, maybe, as you say, less demand in Canada, letting the price stay down?

[RizZy]

Quickest supply route I've personally found was via the button by the side of my hospital bed last week. I know its not quite the same thing, but morphine delivered by a nurse to your bed side has to be a pretty good alterantive.

[DuVeL]

You allright now Rizzy?
Or are you now going Cold Turky?

[Hektor]

one example: new orleans was a prosperous middle-class city. then there was the  hurricane last year. suddenly, there was chaos, because there were no police who guard the people.
no policeman, no court, no prison...
you all know what happened: all the "normal" citizens - a lot of them never did a crime in their life before- took advantage of the situation; they despoil all the shops(not for necessary food or water, but for tv, sony, money etc...). they get a gun and raid each other, a lot of man rape woman... and so on and so far. so many innocent people died.
before, a lot of people only behave accurate because they were afraid of the negative consequences!
when suddenly there is anarchy, which means there is no executive power who observe the people and make sure everone stick to the rules, the behaviour changes totally.
well, to build a bridge to the topic, there are so many anti-social elements in every society.
drugs are very dangerous and often underrated espacially in my generation.
drugdealers are also anti-social elemments. and as i said before, the punishment for them is just ridiculous(at least in germany).
always think about how would you feel when your son or daughter can buy cokain on every street for 5 bugs?
its so cheap because the punishment is far too lame.
you can see in my example of new orleans who the victims are: the victims are the decent, innocent people.
to protect the "good" people, its necessary to keep away the anti-social elements, and as i explained, determent is the best of prevention.
so imagine there is a very hard punishment for criminals, then cokain would never cost 5$, then it will be nearly impossible for youngg people to get some, and - of course- there will be less criminals!- because they are all afraid of the hard punishment!
imagine its not necessary to punish people, because everyone behave proper... then we are in paradise...

[delanvital]

one example: new orleans was a prosperous middle-class city. then there was the  hurricane last year. suddenly, there was chaos, because there were no police who guard the people.
no policeman, no court, no prison...
you all know what happened: all the "normal" citizens - a lot of them never did a crime in their life before- take advantage of the situation; they despoil all the shops(not for necessary food or water, but for tv, sony, money etc...). they get a gun and raid each other, a lot of man rape woman... and so on and so far. so many innocent people died.
before, a lot of people only behave accurate because they were afraid of the negative consequences!
when suddenly there is anarchy, which means there is no executive power who observe the people and make sure everone stick to the rules, the behaviour changes totally.
well, to build a bridge to the topic, there are so many anti-social elements in every society.
drugs are very dangerous and often underrated espacially in my generation.
drugdealers are also anti-social elemments. and as i said before, the punishment for them is just ridiculous(at least in germany).
always think about how would you feel when your son or daughter can buy cokain on every street for 5 bugs?
its so cheap because the punishment is far too lame.
you can see in my example of new orleans who the victims are: the victims are the decent, innocent people.
to protect the "good" people, its necessary to keep away the anti-social elements, and as i explained, determent is the best of prevention.
so imagine there is a very hard punishment for criminals, then cokain would never cost 5$, then it will be nearly impossible for youngg people to get some, and - of course- there will be less criminals!- because they are all afraid of the hard punishment!
imagine its not necessary to punish people, because everyone behave proper... then we are in paradise...

New Orleans was a state of emergency (martial law or however you put that) in combination with life threatening elements such as dehydration, infection and so on. I know you use the example to present the prey or the animalistic survival view on humans. Yet, I don't think an extreme example where you need to fight for water (since it apparently took days to get water to New Orleans. Should've been a joke) quite portraits how human beings would act, if they were not forced to.

That said, I am to a large extent the naïve optimist that believes in good in people. That is, a drug dealer would have chosen another life style had he been given more options in life. So, the problem to a large extent is not human natural behaviour - it is opportunities.

That said sick people of various kinds will always be there in a minority and we need the law to control the elements of the extreme - both sick people and also "good" people finding them in strong emotional situations - like when they are about to take the law into their own hands. As I said, I always tend to see the good in people as long as they are given options and are treated right. I think, a complete utopian idea here, that is all people had been treaten right in their upbringing (whatever that is) and been given decent amounts of options, we would not have that many cases to deal with.

Quite a different view than yours, huh?

[Hektor]

homo homini lupus?
- this is a quote from the philosoph hobbes, which means: humans are like a wolf to other humans. they stick together, for examample fight together against opponents, but when you throw a bone to them, theyll bite each other...
another philosoph said that the difference between animals and humans is, that humans have a pervers amusement while afflicting or killing other humans.
of course i totally disagree with these attitudes. as i said i have little problems with english so i hope you dont misunderstood me.
you are right with your thinking, that you always try to see the "good" things in people, because everyone has weakpoints. so when you search for them, youll always find something. just try to see the good side of a person- its absolutely my opinion.
and youre also right, that there are a lot of different causes which influences a persons behaviour: family,society, state, experiences, economic-conditions, culture... and so on.
of course i also thought about all that...
what i wrote before sound stereotype and superficially, but only because i need a few hundred pages to light all the aspects and explain them. so i only wrote and explained one simple aspect (the necessity of punishment to retain peace -or- sometimes you need to use violence if you want to conserve peace).
by the way, THOUSANDS! of people die EVERY DAY! because they have no water. there are wars going on in more than 50 countries. you know the holocost i guess - belive me, the treatments of the civilians in the war zones arent more humane or better nowadays than 60 years ago in germany!
in 3 month ill move to afrika. i already lived there for a few years. l here in germany, i have a lot of friends who are refugees from different countries.
i wont tell you what cruel things going on in many countries.
as i said, my big ambition is peace, for me as well as for all "good" people.
i think you misunderstood me a bit; im not the pessimist who thinks all humans are bad..., im a pacifist, im far away from being wise, but im experienced enough to know that sometimes you MUST use violence on other people, otherwise there is no justice for the good people who only want to live in peace.
one question at the end: imagine you live 60 years ago. the nazis wanna take over the world and kill all non germans, to retain the german race.
do you really think it would be bad to stop them by using force???
do you still think its always bad to use force to retain peace???

[delanvital]

homo homini lupus?
- this is a quote from the philosoph hobbes, which means: humans are like a wolf to other humans. they stick together, for examample fight together against opponents, but when you throw a bone to them, theyll bite each other...
another philosoph said that the difference between animals and humans is, that humans have a pervers amusement while afflicting or killing other humans.
of course i totally disagree with these attitudes. as i said i have little problems with english so i hope you dont misunderstood me.
you are right with your thinking, that you always try to see the "good" things in people, because everyone has weakpoints. so when you search for them, youll always find something. just try to see the good side of a person- its absolutely my opinion.
and youre also right, that there are a lot of different causes which influences a persons behaviour: family,society, state, experiences, economic-conditions, culture... and so on.
of course i also thought about all that...
what i wrote before sound stereotype and superficially, but only because i need a few hundred pages to light all the aspects and explain them. so i only wrote and explained one simple aspect (the necessity of punishment to retain peace -or- sometimes you need to use violence if you want to conserve peace).
by the way, THOUSANDS! of people die EVERY DAY! because they have no water. there are wars going on in more than 50 countries. you know the holocost i guess - belive me, the treatments of the civilians in the war zones arent more humane or better nowadays than 60 years ago in germany!
in 3 month ill move to afrika. i already lived there for a few years. l here in germany, i have a lot of friends who are refugees from different countries.
i wont tell you what cruel things going on in many countries.
as i said, my big ambition is peace, for me as well as for all "good" people.
i think you misunderstood me a bit; im not the pessimist who thinks all humans are bad..., im a pacifist, im far away from being wise, but im experienced enough to know that sometimes you MUST use violence on other people, otherwise there is no justice for the good people who only want to live in peace.
one question at the end: imagine you live 60 years ago. the nazis wanna take over the world and kill all non germans, to retain the german race.
do you really think it would be bad to stop them by using force???
do you still think its always bad to use force to retain peace???

Thing is, environment again. If Germans hadn't been put under such completely unrealistic terms with regards to trade and indebtment after WW1 which made the reconstruction impossible - one in four kids did not make the age of 1 year for instance due to food problems and lack of decent treatment - would Hitler have been given mandate?

I am curious, how old are you Hektor?

[Hektor]

you ALWAYS have the freedom to decide your own actions!!! of course when you grew up in a poor state and you have barely enough to eat, the tempation to do a crime (stealing...) is even bigger, but think about this: you life in sudan. you steal a bread because otherwise you will probably die- you can call it self-preservation.
so far so good. but, the bread you stole was property of a man. because of you stealing his bread, he hasnt enough to feed his 3 children, so maybe one must die of starvation...
even in this extreme situation, you have the freedom to decide your own actions!
you always have different possibilities. you musnt choose the life of a drug dealer here in germany. everyone get enough money from the state to survive.
when someone choose to be a drugdealer or a thief, or a robber, then because of greed. and for that, you musnt be charitable. everyone is responsible for his own actions

[Hektor]

im 25:)

[Hektor]

you are right with thw treaty of versailles after ww1. it causes the 2nd ww in many different aspects.
but that was only an example. the history of mankind is a history of wars. there was no age without wars. and unfotunately... i dont think itll ever stop.
i think always civilians, woman, children... innocent people have to suffer.
in my opinion everyone has the right to life hiis life in a peaceful society, and i just wanted to point out that its very important to remove all the anti social elements(like murderers, nazis, thiefs, drugdealers...). only when you do that, people who wanna life in peace, have the chance to do so.

[delanvital]

you ALWAYS have the freedom to decide your own actions!!! of course when you grew up in a poor state and you have barely enough to eat, the tempation to do a crime (stealing...) is even bigger, but think about this: you life in sudan. you steal a bread because otherwise you will probably die- you can call it self-preservation.
so far so good. but, the bread you stole was property of a man. because of you stealing his bread, he hasnt enough to feed his 3 children, so maybe one must die of starvation...
even in this extreme situation, you have the freedom to decide your own actions!
you always have different possibilities. you musnt choose the life of a drug dealer here in germany. everyone get enough money from the state to survive.
when someone choose to be a drugdealer or a thief, or a robber, then because of greed. and for that, you musnt be charitable. everyone is responsible for his own actions

Aye, you have the freedom. But as I said, a) environment including b) decent upbringing reduces this severely imho. If you are raised not to steal and if there is no need to do so, then you probably wouldn't.

Drug dealers in Denmark (same thing plenty of money from the government, Denmark is probably the one country in the world that really ooses money out here) are still becoming so because of problems with either a or b (or both). I doubt few (but some) people become drug dealers, because they wanted it or desired it, even for the quick money. I bet they had a higher dream they couldn't attain. I guess what I'm saying is that, still, options would reduce it severely.

But that said, if you have limited options, going the criminal way should still be punished and yes, probably due to greed or some temptation, and yes you are responsible for your own actions. But being tempted by money as a quick way to get a better car fx. does not compare to the example with New Orleans where you steal water or else you'd die. So, I guess the conclusion I have, is that a and b greatly reduces the problems but you will still have some, as you mentioned due to greed, that will be tempted to do stuff that somehow hurts society.

[DuVeL]

Hektor? There's an EDIT-button you know.