Youth Today

[Benny]

What's the solution?

National Service? A good hiding? This country is going to the dogs and the symptoms are monifesting themselves in teenagers.

I love England, but I hate what it's turned into.

[DogMeat]

What's the solution?

National Service? A good hiding? This country is going to the dogs and the symptoms are monifesting themselves in teenagers.

I love England, but I hate what it's turned into.

Assign one school leaver to every pensioner as a personal assistant/bodyguard/slave etc. with the firm understanding that whatever happens to the pensioner will also happen to the youth (barring death by natural causes).  Minimum wage for 2 years service, then off to uni/get a job or back into service if they've not got a job within 6 months.

[Gone_Away]

Doggers you must be getting old..
 
Seriously though.. Hold the parents financially responsible for the actions of their kids..

[Cadaver]

Seriously though.. Hold the parents financially responsible for the actions of their kids..

Aye, that would be one solution.
 
Another would be to revamp the whole benefit system, so that kids aren't seen in some areas of society solely as the means to get a bigger house/higher income/etc.
 
Another would be to take the bloody gloves off parents/teachers and allow some discipline to be reinstilled. I'm not saying thumping kids about should be allowed, far from it. However, parents shouldn't have to fear being labelled a child abuser for giving a little smack when the little tykes are really playing up.
 
Growing up in the 70's I remember that any adult was allowed to discipline any child. You didn't answer back to anyone, because it'd always find its way back to your folks and you'd be in for a rollicking. You'd never dream of backchatting the rozzers. Not only would you get it in the neck from them, but woe betide you when you got home.
 
Do I ever recall being abused? No. Do I have lasting mental scars, or anguish? No. As a child you push the boundaries as far as behaviour is concerned, and you need to know where you have to stop.
 
I think that's where our country has gone wrong. We've had too many PC, softy liberal shites running the show for too long, and look at the legacy they've created... :sad:
 
Sadly, we've had at least two generations where this has got out of hand (and I truly believe that the generation gap is starting to get smaller).  Anything that gets effected now, is going to take a fair while to put things right.

[GhostMjr]

To be Honest being one of the youngest here its lack of facilities for children. A prime example is my local swimming pool which has since closed down and is now going to become a housing block. In all fairness we are ignoring our children who are the future of the country by not providing them with facilities. Ask the average child on the street why they are there, simply because they are "bored".

[Doorman]

To be Honest being one of the youngest here its lack of facilities for children. A prime example is my local swimming pool which has since closed down and is now going to become a housing block. In all fairness we are ignoring our children who are the future of the country by not providing them with facilities. Ask the average child on the street why they are there, simply because they are "bored".

That's the kind of talk that keeps the whole rotten mess going. I didn't have a swimming pool or any of the things that are deemed 'necessary' nowadays and I've never stabbed anyone. I got into trouble, like any kid but if I got the cane at school I also got a sorting out when I got home for GETTING the cane. Coppers were to be feared if not respected. You certainly didn't give them any lip.Kids today are not taught their boundaries. Consequently, they have no idea of right and wrong until they kill someone. Then they start their self pitying blubbing as they're sent down for two weeks community service. :ranting2::ranting2::ranting2::ranting2: etc. etc.

[T-Bag]

It's not about boredom, I'm only 20 myself so I shouldn't be too out of touch with the younger generation (or my memories of it) and basically the cause is nothing happens when you do something wrong so why stop.
Shout at a teacher, nothing happens and your friends will think you're cool. Harass someone on the street, the police don't come knocking.
Don't get a job, the government will just hand you cash for as long as you kept asking for it.
Things need to change, it needs to start with the schools, if someone is causing a problem they should be expelled, not given 50 chances to turn it all around. Take them out of their circle of friends and they won't do the same things.
Police need to arrest people for commiting crimes, it's no good having loads of new laws when the police ignore the old ones....when was the last time you saw someone arrested for littering? If the police pick and choose what to inforce there's no point them being there, because one day they'll be to busy for a murder because lots have people have been speeding that day.
Next step is make people work for benifits, they should have 3 months of proper benifits the way it is now (anyone can find themself unemployed for a short while), but after that they should be limited to free public transport, food tokens (strictly not transferable - 5 yr prison term etc) and a space in a hostel if they want it. No council houses etc, no blowing all their money on scratchcards, there is no stigma about being unemployed anymore, make people proud to be working.
Final point, don't let bad parents look after children, if someone is raising their child badly enough social services get involved, or they're sent to youth offenders surely that proves the point they can't raise a child and their children should be put into care pending the parent(s) completeing a good parenting course. Make them work for their child, because if they don't care enough to pass the course then they shouldn't have a child.

(some of this is quite extreme but it would work)

[Doorman]

It's not about boredom, I'm only 20 myself so I shouldn't be too out of touch with the younger generation (or my memories of it) and basically the cause is nothing happens when you do something wrong so why stop.
Shout at a teacher, nothing happens and your friends will think you're cool. Harass someone on the street, the police don't come knocking.
Don't get a job, the government will just hand you cash for as long as you kept asking for it.
Things need to change, it needs to start with the schools, if someone is causing a problem they should be expelled, not given 50 chances to turn it all around. Take them out of their circle of friends and they won't do the same things.
Police need to arrest people for commiting crimes, it's no good having loads of new laws when the police ignore the old ones....when was the last time you saw someone arrested for littering? If the police pick and choose what to inforce there's no point them being there, because one day they'll be to busy for a murder because lots have people have been speeding that day.
Next step is make people work for benifits, they should have 3 months of proper benifits the way it is now (anyone can find themself unemployed for a short while), but after that they should be limited to free public transport, food tokens (strictly not transferable - 5 yr prison term etc) and a space in a hostel if they want it. No council houses etc, no blowing all their money on scratchcards, there is no stigma about being unemployed anymore, make people proud to be working.
Final point, don't let bad parents look after children, if someone is raising their child badly enough social services get involved, or they're sent to youth offenders surely that proves the point they can't raise a child and their children should be put into care pending the parent(s) completeing a good parenting course. Make them work for their child, because if they don't care enough to pass the course then they shouldn't have a child.
 
(some of this is quite extreme but it would work)

It's encouraging to hear a young fellah talk like this. There's hope for us all.

[Snokio]

This goes for everyone, not just kids, commit a crime such as theft, antisocial, physical violence etc, cut a finger off, repeat offenders get another finger cut off.

Or if thats sounds a little 'heavy handed', send them to a military style base camp where they have to endure rigorous tasks etc for long periods of times.

Just the other week or so ago, some youths were causing damage in the high street late at night and one of the youths threatened an elderly lady with a knife saying he was going to kill her....... with word quickly getting round there was "gathering" of locals who did not like the sound of this. 30 people went round the village looking for these youths, they identified them and tracked them down...rang on the door bell, and the farther came out, teenager looking out the top window, one them shouted " You come out and we will sort it out like men" he was scared s***less, the police turned up, slightly out numbered as there was only 2 of them, trying to move literally 30 men, they told them to move on and let them do their job, that didn't go down well as they responded, well someone has to "police" around here and where the f*** were you! -  they never even turned up till a day later!  

Bring back the local bobby that everyone fears!!  

ohh and build more prisons and take away their privileges and to the most extent, their human rights!! instead of allowing TV's radio's, pool etc!!

Rant over....for now

[delanvital]

That's the kind of talk that keeps the whole rotten mess going. I didn't have a swimming pool or any of the things that are deemed 'necessary' nowadays and I've never stabbed anyone. I got into trouble, like any kid but if I got the cane at school I also got a sorting out when I got home for GETTING the cane. Coppers were to be feared if not respected. You certainly didn't give them any lip.Kids today are not taught their boundaries. Consequently, they have no idea of right and wrong until they kill someone. Then they start their self pitying blubbing as they're sent down for two weeks community service. :ranting2::ranting2::ranting2::ranting2: etc. etc.

I agree completely with the consequence and border stuff. Why is this not emphasised? Maybe because kids are placed in institutions and/or schools most of their young life. This does not teach kids what is right or wrong and teachers can't even as much as threaten with a smack. The education and moral kids should get from their parents is rather limited. I think this is so for two reasons - first of all because of the lack of time kids are around their parents to learn and second, because when parents finally have time to be with their kids, they sort of want to make up for not having been there by giving them a good time... and some slack or something.

[Carr0t]

Only just 24 meself and I agree a lot with what has already been said. Kids these days have no respect for authority because everyone is too scared of getting in trouble themselves for 'abuse' to enforce discipline when kids are bad. My parents are quite old (my bro and sis are both pushing 40) so possibly I got slightly 'old fashioned' parenting from them (I know I resented the fact that the never let me stay out as late or go out drinking as young or watch such gory/sexy movies etc etc as all my mates parents did) but if I was naughty I got a smack, and the physical pain taught me not to do that again. If I got in trouble at my (small local village) school my parents *did* find out, and I got in trouble for it again when I got home (OK not caning, but a damn good yelling/grounding or similar, which was properly enforced). I grew up fine, and I know the limits of society and have a good moral base (I think, anyway). And a large part of the problem these days seems to be that parents either don't care enough or aren't willing to discipline their kids when they get in trouble. Make the parents or legal guardians responsible in terms of paying for damages or serving some kind of community service that the kid would have got if they were older etc (not to the extent of serving a prison sentence of course, that would be going too far).

On this subject actually, has anyone else read the *book* Starship Troopers? It's far better than the film, and actually has a lot to say on this kind of subject. I read it recently, and Robert Heinlein made some good points. In the book version of the future (and bearing in mind it was written in the late 50s he shows some remarkable foresight) our way of life fell apart around about now, as kids lost respect for authority, everyone wanted to freeload, and authority was nonexistent. In steps a, to be fair, pretty fascist, government. Public floggings are reinstated for most crimes where today you'd get a fine or community service. If the child is too young to be flogged the father is flogged. If the child is old enough (say past about 16) but still under the age of legally being responsible for their actions (under 18) both father and son are strung up together (admittedly this is assuming that most issues with the world today stem from young males rather than both sexes).

Now that is going a bit far and is somewhat barbaric, but Heinlein makes a good point that we have evolved to equate pain = bad. If you are trying to house train a puppy you cause it limited physical pain by smacking it whenever it messes on the carpet, and if you see it about to do something in the wrong place you move it to the correct location. You don't just yell at it, because that would take far longer to instil the correct behaviour, if it ever worked at all. We (well, most people) have this ingrained subconscious instinct of 'OK, I received physical pain for doing X, so maybe I shouldn't do X again'. Why not make use of that? If all you do is stuff a kid in prison overnight then let them go, over and over again... Human rights laws (which, don't get me wrong, I think are a good thing) have made sure that prison stays aren't exactly an uncomfortable experience, so where's the punishment? Maybe not flogging, but what about physically arduous tasks like you get for punishments in the Army. Anyone else seen 'Bad Lads Army' on TV, where they take a load of repeat offenders and train them using Army training methods from the 50s, including the punishments and such?

Sorry, that was a bit longer than I thought. Wall of text crits you for elevendy.

[smilodon]

Parents and a media that is happy to lie in order to get a few more adverts watched or a few more papers sold. I'd blame them both almost exclusively.

Not enough police? So what if kids don't commit crime in the first place. Not enough prisons? Likewise, who cares if kids don't get sent there. No discipline in schools? Not important if kids don't misbehave. Children in 2007 are no different from kids in 1997, 1987 1977 etc etc. There's nothing in their genes that makes them into thugs. It's lazy, selfish parenting. Too many people with too much time and money, and a desire to fill their days up with what they want to do. Children are a commitment not a luxury. Shoving then in front of a TV, a PC or out the door is not a substitute for proactive parenting. Parents should share their time with their kids. Don't offload your parental responsibilities onto Nickelodeon or EA Sports.

Take any child from today or any time in the past and neglect them and allow them to get bored. Throw in massive under funding of youth facilities, swimming pools, playing fields, youth clubs and associations. Add a 'litigation mad' greedy society that given half a chance will sue the life out of any who gives their time to run a kids football club or activity group. Then top it off with removing the ability of the only people left who can help kids (teachers) to effectively control them... and welcome to our world.

And then we add fuel to the fire. Our press delight in telling us how evil kids are. How we must beat and punish them and devise more obscene and medieval ways of getting a some revenge on the little swine when they do become the monsters we have created. And then let the press lie and deceive us about the true levels of youth crime in the UK. Let them dwell on the negative (when did something positive ever sell a newspaper?). They'll never tell you about the decent and the good stuff kids mostly do. Papers scare you, they tell you what's wrong with society. Then they tell you that it's not your fault. And finally they tell you who's fault it is, never once letting a fact get in the way of a good paper selling story.

Kids are great. Given half a chance they will reward us, enthrall us, entertain us, make us proud and ultimately look after us. If a small minority grow up broken it really isn't their fault. It's ours. We're to blame. Not some lax laws and ineffective police service. It's you and me friend. We created the world we live in. If it's crap, well that's down to us. Like I say, we always like to find someone else to blame when it all goes wrong. It's never us that's messed up. It's always the other guy.

[Doorman]

Kids are great. Given half a chance they will reward us, enthrall us, entertain us, make us proud and ultimately look after us. If a small minority grow up broken it really isn't their fault. It's ours. We're to blame. Not some lax laws and ineffective police service. It's you and me friend. We created the world we live in. If it's crap, well that's down to us. Like I say, we always like to find someone else to blame when it all goes wrong. It's never us that's messed up. It's always the other guy.

In which case I would like to say I am deeply, truly sorry. ...friend

[Anonymous]

snips long post by Smilo

hear! hear! I've spent most of today trying to work out what to put but you said it all :clap:

[Eternaluk]

Well, i've been reading through this, for a while.. And, speaking as a kid / Teenager, I can say that all(/most) of the recent stabbings(/killings, violence, drugs and anti-social behavior. Spelling?)  are for respect, just trying to get their mates to think their big, or to show off to a girl by pratting about, and taking it too far.

And yes, it is the parent's and people around the "youths" fault, but also the child's own, for not knowing where to stop, where's it going to stop? Beating someone up because they looked sideways at you, shouting abuse across the street at people that don't wear the same clothes as you, or a stabbing? Well... That all depends on the person in speaking. It might be a simple case of hanging around your friends, and they might not respect their parents, and you start to have the same attitude towards your own, and everyone who ain't your mate, or you've been brought up a bit rough, and it's just a way of life, or maybe, you've just got a F**ked up child! Who doesn't give a S**t what he/she does, and the consequences to their-self, or anyone around them.

And as Smilo said,(I think?) Kids only say "I'm so bored" and such alike, because, it's a new generation, times have changed, but I doubt kids are that different from when you were kids, or younger, it's just the fact.. That dumping you child in front of a computer, is normal, and when you take that away from them, they have to think about doing other stuff, like being outside with your mates, causing trouble, drinking, or just "having a laugh"(Along with lots of other things, depends on the child, they might hate computers, and love drawing, and painting, and are probably lovely. Just try to imagine that this one isn't, and they like drinking, and causing trouble and like to go out messing around with their mates in town), which usually results in someone getting hurt, or them in jail.
This is one reason the prisons are over-flowing, because everyone's "Bored" , now, I don't know if it would be better, to give us more activities, or take away everything we would normally be doing, and give us a reality shock, which would probably change the way we think, for quite a long time..

Now, I hope that came out right, me reading it over it seems OK, but I dunno..

Oh, and i'm no "Mummy's boy", i'm more of a chav :sideways:,and i'm close enough to Shrewsbury and Oswestry  to know what it's like, being around people that don't take you seriously, or wanna fight you 'cos you look tough.

Well, there's my contribution. hope it might let you "Understand", but it's more-or-less exactly what's already been said.