The Standard maps ... PCS or not?

[Dr Sadako]

If we were to have a map with standards maps only. What maps would be in that rotation? These are standard maps that are available. Some of those are not suitable to PCS imo. I know some of you will disagree.

as_highrise - No
as_oilrig -  No
as_tundra - Maybe

cs_747 - A  No
cs_arabstreets -  Yes
cs_assault -  No
cs_backalley -No
cs_estate - Yes
cs_italy - Yes
cs_militia - Yes
cs_office -  Yes
cs_siege -  No
cs_thunder - Maybe

de_aztec - Yes
de_cbble - No
de_dust - No
de_dust2 - Yes
de_inferno - Yes
de_nuke - Yes
de_prodigy - No
de_rotterdam - Yes
de_train - Yes
de_vegas - Yes
de_vertigo - No

[JonnyAppleSeed]

I find "cs_" type maps to be a bit stagnent for PCS when playing as "T"  compared to the bomb type maps

[Dr Sadako]

I find "cs_" type maps to be a bit stagnent for PCS when playing as "T" compared to the bomb type maps

I agree. de maps are less static.

[sheepy]

i agree but i think that tundra and prodegy are yes's

[TeaLeaf]

If we were to have a map with standards maps only. What maps would be in that rotation? These are standard maps that are available. Some of those are not suitable to PCS imo. I know some of you will disagree.

as_highrise - No
as_oilrig -  No
as_tundra - Maybe

cs_747 - A  No
cs_arabstreets -  Yes
cs_assault -  No
cs_backalley -No
cs_estate - Yes
cs_italy - Yes
cs_militia - Yes
cs_office -  Yes
cs_siege -  No
cs_thunder - Maybe

de_aztec - Yes
de_cbble - No
de_dust - No
de_dust2 - Yes
de_inferno - Yes
de_nuke - Yes
de_prodigy - No
de_rotterdam - Yes
de_train - Yes
de_vegas - Yes
de_vertigo - No
There is a lot of gray in that list.  We should remember that not all maps play well all of the time - it depends who is on the server.  For example I have had some great tactical games on cbble and some lousy rush rush rush DM games on inferno.  On that basis it is difficult to score the above list at all.........

TL.  

[suicidal_monkey]

I think writing out the entire list with colour-coded answers would take me too long :roll:

[smilodon]

Me too, so I'll just take issue with two maps... Dust and Seige. Both these maps are what you make of them. I've seen them played very well by teams that co-ordinate and communicate effectively. It's not just a bullet-fest in the mincer or on the ramp as long as the T's are creative about how they execute their attacks.

I was lucky enough to see a demo of Nocturne playing seige and the way they assaulted the underground area and worked through thehostage rooms at the back was amazing.  They're not bad maps for PCS play, just hard work to deal with as CT's.

Plus we have to keep some of them in the rotation otherwise we'll never play on them and never win a thing in the matches.

[JB]

I miss Dust, Cbble and prodigy.  Afaik arabstreets isnt a standard map, or it wasn't the last time i looked.

Is it possible we could take a look at De_airstrip as it's in 1.6 so some of us out there must have played it and could give their opinions.

[A Twig]

Hmm, I know this isn't a standard map but I can't be arsed to start a new topic. de_volare. I know u boobs tried it and booted it but I think it deserves another try!

[smilodon]

The wonder of the Deadmen Servers; we get what we ask for, good (railway)  or bad (rio)

[MAD_ness]

Hmm, I know this isn't a standard map but I can't be *TANGO* to start a new topic. de_volare. I know u boobs tried it and booted it but I think it deserves another try!

we booted it because it sucked more than a turbo Dyson on speed


in all the times we played it I don't recall a decent game

long may it rot in the has beens section !!!

this is only my opinion !! :x

[Dr Sadako]

The wonder of the Deadmen Servers; we get what we ask for, good (railway) or bad (rio)

Train is indeed a good map.

Sorry to hear that you don't like Rio. I think this is one of the best maps in the rotation. Without hesitation the best cs map in the rotation. I discussed this a bit with DCG last night while playing it and this map is what you make it. CTs can own on this map. T also and you can have matches that are extremely close. The problem as I see it is that when you stop playing as a team you will lose on this map. I have seen 9 CT vs 4 Ts on this map and the Ts kicked CTs ass big time. The only reason was that they played as a team. CT didn't do that. When I played Rio last night I played on both sides. The lack of communication on CT was the main reason why we/they lost.

Some tips regarding Rio.

1). This is a very small map. There is NO NEED to run anywhere on this map without the hostages. Use the crouch walk or walk button as much as possible.

2). Use the available time. 5 minutes are forever on this map. If you die within 45 seconds of a new round you should reconsider your style of play.

3). As CT shoot the cameras. They are used by T.

4).  Apply the wear down tactics as a team.

I have seen this tactic been used sometimes on this server but not as often as it should be used imho. Usually it is employed when there is only 1 player left on the attacking team. So what do I mean?

1. Attack at one spot. It is not necessary to get a kill.
2. Retreat/regroup
3. Take a new position

Repeat the cycle.

This tactic is very effective on de maps for Ts. It will make the CTs uncertain if they are not well organised. They will not know the difference between a distraction and a real plant attempt.

As I said in "1." it is not necessary to get a kill. By wearing down the enemy they will call for backup and soon they will get unorganised.

So what I am saying is try this tactic before there is only one guy left ...


Simple CS rules to live by:

1) Just because you see an enemy doesn't mean you have to shoot at him instantly. Especially if he doesn't see YOU.

2) Just because you see an enemy doesn't mean you have to kill him there and then. Wear down tactic applies.

3) Just because a teammate fires at an enemy does not mean the rest of the team should all bunch up pushing each other out of the way to try and get in the last shot to win the kill. (happens ALL the time)

4) You don't need to run everywhere. You've got 5 minutes to complete your objective, use the time you have wisely.

Cheers,

[smilodon]

Each to their own. It's far too busy a map for me. Too many routes, windows, hiding places and dark spots. It's a 'creaper' map and I hate them.

[DonkeyCheeseGrater]

My thoughts about Rio and for that matter the new assault map, is that although they both give a lot of opportunity for varied play and are good looking maps, I have never played on either map and had a good tactical game. What i mean by this is the attacking and to a lesser extent the defending team never seem to work properly as a team, like you would see on a map such as aztec for example. In my mind these maps become DM with boundaries rather than what i would term true PCS (team based, tactic based play). They become individual focused rather than team focused. IMO the complex nature of the maps actualy deters team based play, by causing effective tactics to be overly complex to compensate. 90% of the time each player is playing their own game. There might be a co-ordinated attack in some instances but by individuals converging on one spot.  (if you see what i mean). I believe this happens more by chance than planning.

To me PCS is about team play, communication and tactics. (Without this it just becomes like a public server with restrictions.) These maps IMO do not cut it on that front. I know i am not one to lead by example and formulate attacks and teamplay (not my strong point in CS), but i see myself more as a grunt willing to lay down my life and follow, but no one seems to want to lead on these maps and they are therefore IMO causing damage and harm to the PCS philosophy.

My two pence. Spend it wisely im skint.  

[Dr Sadako]

My thoughts about Rio and for that matter the new assault map, is that although they both give a lot of opportunity for varied play and are good looking maps, I have never played on either map and had a good tactical game. What i mean by this is the attacking and to a lesser extent the defending team never seem to work properly as a team, like you would see on a map such as aztec for example. In my mind these maps become DM with boundaries rather than what i would term true PCS (team based, tactic based play). They become individual focused rather than team focused. IMO the complex nature of the maps actualy deters team based play, by causing effective tactics to be overly complex to compensate. 90% of the time each player is playing their own game. There might be a co-ordinated attack in some instances but by individuals converging on one spot. (if you see what i mean). I believe this happens more by chance than planning.

To me PCS is about team play, communication and tactics. (Without this it just becomes like a public server with restrictions.) These maps IMO do not cut it on that front. I know i am not one to lead by example and formulate attacks and teamplay (not my strong point in CS), but i see myself more as a grunt willing to lay down my life and follow, but no one seems to want to lead on these maps and they are therefore IMO causing damage and harm to the PCS philosophy.

I think that could be applied to almost any CS map that we have in the rotation ...

DE maps are more suitable for PCS as you have more than one target area. As our members are more focused on guarding the objective in comparison to a public server the cs maps usually boils down to killing the Ts and not rescuing the hostages. The main reason is that the hostages are together in the same area. If we look at the cs maps in the rotation:

cs_italy
cs_militia
cs_office
cs_rio
cs_thunder
cs_wildwest_assault
cs_shogun

The hostages are most frequently saved on office, rio and ww_assault (and shogun). It is very rare that they (all of them) are saved on the others. cs maps have always been a problem when it comes to PCS. I know when I together with Albert and WAS-clan worked on a map pack for Network42 that we really tried hard to find good hostage maps. Some of them we have tried here but rejected e.g. drugwars, france, intercerpt etc.

If we remove bitterwine, rio, ww_assault, militia, shogun, thunder, piranesi and the other hate maps we will have about 10 maps in the rotation. So ... go look for maps that work in PCS.    Send the link for the map to TeaLeaf.