New Management Structure

[Penfold]

We haven't really 'lost' Ghoule ...

According to his post.....

He's going to be accessing our forums, playing on our public servers, keeping in touch via Steam and 'join in on occasions' .... but also 'no longer wants to be part of it'.

Doesn't sound like he's going far tbh (or so I hope) :thumbsup2:

[smite]

I'm with frenzy...
 
What is going on??
 
The servers run well.
 
The games have decent people running them.
 
What i don't get most of all is that people want to leave over this and in a manner of "please delete my account." You could just stop coming onto the forums, only read what you think is relevant to you or just ignore it, but people are making a statement of "look at me im not happy so im spitting out my dummy" it's pathetic....Grow up fcs.
 
For me:
Well done to all the admins for the time and work you put in.
Oldie / TL your doing a great job keep it up.
 
I may upset some people with the harsh comments.........I don't really care .

[Penfold]

I do have to agree Smite and it's not our policy to delete any accounts. Worse case we'll reduce a user to a bulk-standard member but over and above that if they want to leave they can just leave and not have to log into their account again.

/Flame-retardant pants on standby

I have taken the decision to move this thread to supporting members chat for the following reasons:

1. All bar two people who have posted in this thread are supporting members so the vast, vast majority of members still have access to it.

2. In an attempt to start drawing in more players, we shortly going to be spamming the servers and forum across the gaming community and this thread, although valid, is not a true reflection on us or our interpersonal relationships 99% of the time and our 'mature' ethos.

3. There's plenty to discuss here and we want to keep the thread alive.

4. If any unsupporting members wants to see this thread or contribute to this thread then I will send it to them. I'm pm'ing unsupporting members who have positively contributed to this thread with this offer. I'm doing this so they don't feel penalised for not being a supporting member - something which is purely voluntary. Any other member is entitled to see and reply to this.


This is not an attempt to subvert, hide, corrupt, oppress or anything else, it's just what I deem to be a sensible and logical move.

I bet I could give you a list of the people who will take major umbridge over this :flirty:.

[Bob]

If people want to publicly flounce off,  let em I say.

This is not aimed in any way directly at Lionheart, but he put it quite simple and straight forward, which made it easy to quote. I have the impression that many do in one way or another have this same attitude, which is why I feel it is necessary to comment:

When people - long time, dedicated and highly respected members of the community - leave in this way, we should not just raise our eye brows and accuse them of handling the situation in a childish or immature way (in lack of better words - it is when writing about serious stuff like this I notice my English should have been quite much better). We should see this as an alarm bell, as an obvious alert that something is not at all the way it should be, and ask ourselves one question: why?

I do not think anybody would leave this suddenly without any good reason - especially not if you have spent years and years participating and helping build this community. If people doesn't think the reasons for those leaving are any good, I encourage the leaving ones to try explain to us why the reasons are good and important for you, cause I am sure they are (to BB, if you are still following this thread: I know I would, and probably many others as well, would appreciate it very much if you would participate in the discussion and try to enlighten us about how you feel). Also in the case of BB, it is quite obvious that something has happened back-stage that hasn't been visible for the lot of us. Here I think the administration has a responsibility to us, the members, what has actually happened - because that much we deserve.

+ people who haven't felt the need to post anything at all (the silent majority)

One should be carefull counting the "silent majority" as a +. I think it isn't unlikely that quite a lot of those who doesn't raise their voice doesn't do so of two reasons: either they feel the situation uncomfortable and doesn't know what they could add neither for nor against. Or they simply doesn't care: as long as they have somplace to play their favourite game with good people without too much stress it is just a hassle to try and enter a discussion such as this - all the way untill it just becomes too much and they tip over and simply leave. The latter of these two is one to particularly look out for, as it potentially could include quite some that you look upon as valuable members of the community, but then all of a sudden they are gone without you being able to do anything about it or really knowing why.

= the state of the community

I also think a thread such as this one says something about the state of the community. However, I think the thread itself only says that things aren't in place. What really can tell us how the state is, is what we are left with after such a discussion: have we learnt anything? did everybody get a chance to say their honest opinion without getting their hands chopped off even though it was an unpopular one? Has the discussion resulted in any changes? Etc...


Finally I would also like to add one thing about what I thought was one of Ninjas key points in his [post=282811]first post[/post], which I feel has been forgotten in much of this debate: how does the management listen to the members, and how is the opinion of the members used by the management when making new decisions.

What I read from Ninja's post conserning transparancy and how things are run, is the desire to know more about and have a greater possibility to influence decission before they are taken (as it is harder to change the way you are driving if the road already has been built). With the original topic of this thread - New Management Structure - in mind, wouldn't one idea for instance be: instead of just anouncing "out of the blue" that we have a new management structure coming, a post could be made saying something like "The admins have felt the need to restructure the management, we have thought about this and that and our thoughts of a solution is this. We would now like to have the input from the members about what you think of this and what potential other ideas you have, before we go through with it". This could also be done for a lot of other important (or unimportant for that matter) changes to the community.


I know I ain't good at controlling myself when writing posts - it can probably both be long and not too easy to get my point always. I still hope some of the above made at least a bit of sense to you. I'm not sure it will make any sense to me either if I read it over tomorrow, but right now this is my :2cents: I'll add more to it later if any clarifications is needed

[Bob]

I'll do a quick comment on this, as I've probably spent an hour writing my last post and feel I have something to add sine quite a few new posts has come in during that time, and Pen's was the last one just minutes before I posted mine:

I have taken the decision to move this thread to supporting members chat for the following reasons

I do see your point, and do to some extent agree. However, if moving this thread, it does more belong in Badge Holders Banter and not here in Supporting Members Chat. The reason for this, is that you should not have to pay to be allowed to participate in this discussion. Anybody that has earned their right to any badge also should have the right to participate - if they feel like it - but at least read this discussion.

[Penfold]

You're quite right. Have to say it didn't even occur to me tbh :doh:
I didn't want un-supporting members to feel penalised as being a supporting member is purely voluntary (hence my offer to relay the thread to any that asked). This way 99.9% of the Community can see it and comment whilst random visitors cannot.

I feel more than a little stupid.....  Good call!

Duly moved and thanks.

I hopeful this is more acceptable.

Thanks mate.

[smilodon]

It might be worth running back through this whole thread.... as I have just done. It's actually not particularly negative at all. We've made suggestions and we've responded to suggestions. Sometimes we've agreed and sometimes we've not. Look at my other thread about opening up public servers as a 'honey trap'. The majority of responses politely told me it was a dumb idea

The only remotely controversial post was Ninja's, and I'd argue it was forthright and in some respects critical, but it's what he feels and he has a right to say it. And anyone else has the right to disagree with the post and to say as much. I don't think he specifically had a go at anyone. He was just making comments about the current status quo. And I assume he made the post to try to make the dMw better for all of us. I happen to disagree with some of his points but that's why we post stuff here. To make suggestions and observations and to have them challenged. It's debate and it's supposed to be fun.

So this thread isn't the car crash we may think it is. I have no idea why it's caused Ghoule to want to leave. This is how a good community works. We talk, we agree, we disagree and hopefully we come up with an improvement. Some people won't get what they want and some people will. Some will stay with the dMw and some might leave. But leave the dMw because you don't like the games that it has to offer, not because we discuss it from time to time.

[Armitage]

BB will not be able to make a comment if moved. I'm not sure if you want him to or not. Just thought I would say something incase this was an oversite.
 

With the original topic of this thread - New Management Structure - in mind, wouldn't one idea for instance be: instead of just anouncing "out of the blue" that we have a new management structure coming, a post could be made saying something like "The admins have felt the need to restructure the management, we have thought about this and that and our thoughts of a solution is this. We would now like to have the input from the members about what you think of this and what potential other ideas you have, before we go through with it". This could also be done for a lot of other important (or unimportant for that matter) changes to the community.

Can I just say Bob thats one of the things that also got my goat. Thats how the section heads where informed also.

[Penfold]

So this thread isn't the car crash we may think it is. I have no idea why it's caused Ghoule to want to leave. This is how a good community works. We talk, we agree, we disagree and hopefully we come up with an improvement. Some people won't get what they want and some people will. Some will stay with the dMw and some might leave. But leave the dMw because you don't like the games that it has to offer, not because we discuss it from time to time.

I'm not sure why Ghoule left too? But we'll leave it open and how what transpires. Regardless, we're not in the habit of deleting profiles. If someone wants out then they only have to not log in and not visit the forum.

Debate is good and this is pretty good overall -I hope we're over the mud-slinging and can make some progress. Notes are being made and things will be considered.

Arm, I appreciate there will be a couple of people (literally) in the Community that cannot see this thread. When I moved it I made it clear that I will give any member a transcript of the thread and also reply on their behalf should they request it. It's not designed to be restrictive, I just think this shouldn't be in a totally open forum where any tom, dick or harry can pass by and comment.

[smilodon]

BB will not be able to make a comment if moved. I'm not sure if you want him to or not. Just thought I would say something incase this was an oversite.

I thought BB left and wanted nothing to do with the community at all. If so I'd have assumed he'd be long gone by now. I think he made one post and it didn't really say anything constructive. But then I'm probably biased as I had a complete sense of humour failure when he referred to me in his post.
 

Can I just say Bob thats one of the things that also got my goat. Thats how the section heads where informed also.

I suppose it raises the question of how much input should people expect. If we'd have had a group of elected admins that were answerable to the membership then I guess we would have certain expectations of being able to be a major part of the process. On the other hand if the dMw is a service provided 'as is' by it's creators TL and Oldie, and we're all effectively users, then it's up to the people who created the community to decide how it is to be run and how much control is given out.

I think the dMw will thrive better if people feel like they can contribute. But on the other hand I'm well aware that a very large number of people simply want to come and use the servers and the forum and don't much care about getting to decide how it's done.

However I still see the dMw as something that's provided. Like you Arm, I've had the opportunity to 'look under the bonnet' and see what's involved in running this community. I wouldn't take it on in a million years For me it's Oldie and TL's baby and they have handed out a fair degree of control of what goes on here. I'm inclined to be grateful for that and not expect anything more. I'm not an admin so I don't know what was discussed before the announcement was made. So I'll defer to you on that one.

[Jabbs]

In light of all that's happened I wish my account to remain, I wish to continue my participation in dMw and I wish to continue to play on dMw servers please :norty:

Seriously, I'm taking the approach that the changes were made for the good of the community and to create a structure that will cope with the expected growth

I too cannot see why Ghoule wants to make such a statement - yes, there have been disagreements over certain things and yes, BB did post a controversial post.  However, if anyone should want to leave over this thread it should be those whose ideas and comments have been flamed and those who have suffered personal attack.  OldBloke I'm sure has considered it over the past week or so ;-)  Even I, as a sensitive soul, have thought several times, is it worth the effort to contribute when ones ideas are put down so sternly?

At the end of the day, I have to repeat what has been said by many already that we are here to have fun and play games and play them in a tactical and organised fashion (something that is rare as we all know)

[DogMeat]

I find it ironic that a thread intended to increase dMw membership has actually managed to reduce it.  You might want to ask yourselves how that happened.

You may also want to resolve the paradox created by claiming to want to recruit new members with a mature attitude and then proceeding to treat them like children.

I now hand you back to the usual suspects and their "if you can't say anything constructive, blah, blah.." comments.  

And I do play elsewhere, thanks.  :thumbsup:

[Penfold]

I too cannot see why Ghoule wants to make such a statement

Ghoule has not left dMw. Like many of us have done in the past he has used that famous dMw revolving door.

It involves getting to the exit, realising that's it's a lot nicer in there than it is *out there* and promptly doing an about turn.

He isn't the first and he won't be the last :flirty:

Either way hello again and welcome back :byebye:

[smilodon]

I find it ironic that a thread intended to increase dMw membership has actually managed to reduce it.  You might want to ask yourselves how that happened.

You may also want to resolve the paradox created by claiming to want to recruit new members with a mature attitude and then proceeding to treat them like children.

I now hand you back to the usual suspects and their "if you can't say anything constructive, blah, blah.." comments.  

And I do play elsewhere, thanks.  :thumbsup:

That was constructive....ish, and I agree this thread isn't one I'd pin to the front page. I'd still make the point that with the exception of one or two pointless "You're all crap you are" posts and Ninja's early and IMHO useful critique of the dMw, this thread seems to be quite positive about the community. No one is disagreeing with the basic idea and almost everyone see it as a positive move. It's spawned a few 'ideas' threads as well.

Frankly I don't see what the problem is. Where's the mass disagreement and argument? Not in this thread.

As to the original idea about the change to the admin role, no one has said it's a dumb idea and so it's reasonable to assume it's taken as a good idea.

In a nutshell the consensus seems to be - good move but maybe the plan could have been discussed with us when it was a plan rather than when it became a decision?

End of thread ?

[sulky_uk]

That was constructive....ish, and I agree this thread isn't one I'd pin to the front page. I'd still make the point that with the exception of one or two pointless "You're all crap you are" posts and Ninja's early and IMHO useful critique of the dMw, this thread seems to be quite positive about the community. No one is disagreeing with the basic idea and almost everyone see it as a positive move. It's spawned a few 'ideas' threads as well.
 
Frankly I don't see what the problem is. Where's the mass disagreement and argument? Not in this thread.
 
As to the original idea about the change to the admin role, no one has said it's a dumb idea and so it's reasonable to assume it's taken as a good idea.
 
In a nutshell the consensus seems to be - good move but maybe the plan could have been discussed with us when it was a plan rather than when it became a decision?
 
End of thread

that what i was thinking as well, apart form nit picking, do we need to carry this thread on?