New Management Structure

[Doorman]

I know it's tough if you are waiting to get on the cod server and 50% of people are untagged. but some of these will keep coming back. and that can only be good.

Just treat the dickheads like dickheads and kick 'em

[delanvital]

[..]Are you suggesting that the admin function could be relaxed so that our playing style is the only difference between a dMw public server and a non-dMw public server? [..]

First of all, I can see, and am aware of, the point you make with conflicting playing styles which could potentially compromise the dMw ethos. I am, however, not advocating a watered-down version of our core values but a broader perspective on gaming and on how to attract potential gamers.

I feel the current approach to recruiting has been narrowly focused on attracting tactical, team work-oriented people, who have already learned the trade somewhere before, instead of trying to serve friendly, potential players in general. As an example, if I had joined a CS-game on boomer as my way into dMw I think I would have been booted. Keeping up with messages, voice comms and what not for a freshman is hard.

As we moved from a clan to a community we have seen the synergy from hosting different games (people take on more of the community's games) and I believe we have even moved beyond our ethos a bit with games like LFS (I am a fan, don't get me wrong) since being a nice chap goes beyond team work there. You don't exactly drive "together" to complete the laps.

The recruiting scope, however, is still on tactical, already-nurtured players to the outside, even though we tolerate, and nurture our own members into the other games we host because they are nice people.

I am not advocating the inclusion of servers with no moderation at all, but merely adding servers to popular, non-tactical, possibly non-team work games to attract friendly, funny people who have no idea what tactical is - yet. A bit like the boomer approach, BUT with leniency on lack of tactical behaviour, but tough on general misbehaviour - swearing, shouting, afk-ing, TK, TW etc.

I am not sure here, but, for example: the inclusion of popular "LAN break" games outside the LANs. As long as they are presented as such, a fun break from the real stuff, I see no problem in hosting servers for different games. The newly-added arcade games on the forum somewhat works like this, but there is no interaction between players. Just an idea...

[..]but I'm at a loss to see how a public server that bears our name and advertises our ethos can be regarded as a 'shop window' for our community when it has no redeeming features.

As mentioned, I would keep a clear distinction between the core games and the others. If the schism is clear I don't see it as a compromise to the ethos. Few gamers does not enjoy different, non-tactical, non-team work games and at the LANs we also have LAN break games. I really hope my ramblings make sense... (hungover from Metallica last night - the new round concert pit is awesome :woot2:) and sorry if I step on anyone's toes...

[Jabbs]

This is a thread I've been following and thinking on very hard and I would like to offer the following into the discussion:

Firstly, I was one of those who PM'd Ninja.  I tend to be a follower rather than a leader.  At least as far as leadership goes (in the workplace for instance) I lead by example and people management.

The reason I PM'd Ninja was because I could see something in what he said that I hadn't previously seen.  I've got to admit I was (and am) happy to carry on with the status quo and therefore his thoughts didn't really stir something in me until the point I read them!

To be more specific, I think the direction of his thoughts regarding the 'division of power' hit a note I guess.  I'll mention more on this in a moment when I discuss the options we have all been discussing and in particular Delanvital just recently.

EXTRACTING THOUGHTS - QUESTIONS AND IDEAS
So, to extract the thoughts that have been buzzing round my little brain :narnar:

I have several points and questions that I think we should be considering and from there, decisions can be made.

As far as I see it there are popular games which are testament to the thriving community we have and there are other games which have been failing (or at least have less and less of a 'regular following) than the 'popular', self sufficent games.

Those popular games would include WoW and COD4 of course.

One game in particular that is less and less popular is Counter Strike as we all know.

Now to the double edged question:

What can we do to revive such games as CS:S or even should we?

(please don't flame me for this. I'm play CS:S as much as anyone here so my personal opinion is that we should attempt to revive it)

Now, assuming that we want to revive and grow certain areas of the community (I think we all want that?) and considering the point that Ninja was making earlier and the one I alluded too, I have the following to suggest (in a round-a-bout way):

I would like to see more people taking responsibility on the servers as admins/semi admins.

If we had more admins, then more of us would be likely to jump on the server (Boomer for instance) and start some games going.

Now, before someone says 'we have enough admins' I would like to say that the more people (who are already upstanding members of this community) that have some admin responsibilities there are, then the more likely we are to have a team of dMw'ers on the server and more often.

I'm not suggesting that you make anyone in particular an admin (i.e. me). What I am suggesting is that you extend the status of good community members from the forums out into the game servers themselves.

I'm also going to suggest that you open up the style of play and map range on Boomer (sorry I'm on about CS:S all the time).  If one of these new admins joins the server and that person likes gungame for instance, then why not let them change the map to a GG map and watch the server fill up!  After a while you can then change back to tactical maps again.  All the while messages will be shown on screen about how we play and on what days etc.

I notice this has been done with COD4 which is great, but remember COD4 is a game that isn't struggling right now.

Insofar as the wider community goes I think that the 'division of power' should be extended across the board anyway.  

My reasoning is that if more of the community are involved in the running of the community (and not just 'the same crew that has been running things for years now'), then the more likely they will advocate the benefits of our community on the server.

GROWTH
Attracting players of the calibre we want is another issue that is being discussed here and I have twopennyworth to add.

Like Delanvital, when I first jumped on the server (CS:S Boomer) well over two years ago, I was one of those guys who would play how they were used to playing i.e. go off and kill as many of the enemy as possible.  On my first visit to the server I felt 'got at' for playing like I did and it was an uncomfortable feeling I must admit.

About a month or two later I accidentally joined the server again and when I joined I remembered the server and it's tactical game style. I also remember the embarrassement I felt at my last visit, however I decided to stick with it and see how it went.

My point here is that most people that might jump on the server who go off fraghunting are not necessarily teenage, fraghunting jerks who we kick and ban due to bad play.  They could well be people like me and Delanvital who just need time and some gentle admin to encourage and open eyes to the proper way of playing the game(s).

Finally, on this point.  If we detect someone who we consider to be material for dMw (remember I was a fraghunter at one stage so first impressions don't count here), then why not add them on steam friends and encourage them that way? You can always delete them later.  This tactic for growth would only work if there were many of us active on the servers and to a certain extent on the forums.

So, if you combine both my points about admins and our way of dealing with the newcomers onto our servers then I think we might perhaps see growth again in the areas that need it and we might see more of our wonderful community enjoying playing a bigger part in the community and therefore growing and happiness restored

[OldBloke]

Lots of good points being made guys and I am taking note of them all - trust me.

I would like to make a point about 'the same crew that has been running things for years now'.

In an earlier post I mentioned that TeaLeaf and I changed the way the community's gaming sections were run. We created the 'Section Head' and empowered them to run their sections as they see fit. Incase there's any confusion, they award their badges, they appoint their admins, they decide on the number and configuration of their servers, they handle matters of section discipline and, of course, they promote the dMw ethos. Look at the 'Management Structure' post and you'll see it's not just the 'same crew' with the power to make change happen. And we hope that that list of names will increase as we strive to grow the community.

It's true that TeaLeaf and I make those senior appointments and that some of them have been around for some time - that's because they're good at what they do and we have confidence that they have the community's best interest at heart.

[ShinyTwelve]

I would like to make a point about 'the same crew that has been running things for years now'.

So would I.

The point was well made. I stood down as an admin because we were not allowed to be admins. You kept interfering. Ron stood down for the same reason. Smilo stood down because of the way you treated him as an admin and I quit the community because of the way you spoke to me.

Sorry OB but you are not the solution, you are the problem!

BB (who has been watching this thread and cant believe some of the crap he has been seeing)

[smilodon]

So would I.

Smilo stood down because of the way you treated him

Please don't speak for me, especially when what you say is complete rubbish. Thanks.

[OldBloke]

... Sorry OB but you are not the solution, you are the problem!

I am definitely going to get me a dMw salary sorted if this keeps up. :flirty:

[sulky_uk]

please guys I thought we were going to keep this civil?

[kregoron]

Ive been following this thread closely, and im surprised.

Tbh this is a Q&A thread, no a place where crap accusations should be flinged around like this.. Im surprised that certain people has tried to derail it into a mud war.. Keep is civilised people..

The new structure looks like it could solve a few problems, and should make it more obvious who "controlls" what..
I dont see a issue with it..

Keep up the good work chaps, your doing a fine job..

[Penfold]

Good post Kreg, I have to agree.

I've asked in the sister thread that we keep this generic and not personal. Some of the stuff coming out of this is interesting and I'm going to keep it that way.

This goes for everybody from the most senior to the most junior member. If you can't keep it courteous then butt out. If you can't control yourselves and keep it clean then I or one of this section's forum moderators will delete your posts.... simple as. You can bitch and complain all you like but you've all now had fair warning. And if enforcing it costs me my job then so be it.

It's not fair that people coming up with constructive and cogent thoughts  gets their insights drowned out by histrionics. :angry:

[Penfold]

My point here is that most people that might jump on the server who go off fraghunting are not necessarily teenage, fraghunting jerks who we kick and ban due to bad play. They could well be people like me and Delanvital who just need time and some gentle admin to encourage and open eyes to the proper way of playing the game(s).

I think this is very valid. I think sometimes we could all have been accused of being very trigger happy with the ban button. It's better to educate and keep someone than ban them and lose them. Good point.

Regarding admins:

.....My reasoning is that if more of the community are involved in the running of the community (and not just 'the same crew that has been running things for years now'), then the more likely they will advocate the benefits of our community on the server.

I take on board your point about more admins but it's in everyone's interests to promote us to potential new members be they an admin or not.

If we had more admins, then more of us would be likely to jump on the server (Boomer for instance) and start some games going.

I'm not sure this is true ... is it? (that me asking btw not telling lol).

[Jabbs]

I'm not sure this is true ... is it? (that me asking btw not telling lol).

Only because it followed on from my previous point about people being involved in the community.

Yes, of course it's in all our interests to build and tell others about the benefits of the community and our style of play but at the end of the day we are all HUMAN.

This means we thrive on attention, praise and recognition.  If we as individuals (not stagnating) are thriving within the community, then we are likely to grow and bring others with us.

[Benny]

This means we thrive on attention, praise and recognition.  If we as individuals (not stagnating) are thriving within the community, then we are likely to grow and bring others with us.

In the spirit of this thread, I disagree entirely. I was asked if I wanted to admin L4D because I was playing it a lot and trying to help where I could on the server side and general setup before we had the server.

Would I still play if I was the admin? Absolutely.

I'm struggling to see how making someone an admin would make them more likely to play on a server. This may be a personal thing, but my career is where I work toward advancement and getting up the ranks for the associated rewards. I don't play here so that one day I can take TL's role.

I may have misinterpreted your post and if so, in the spirit of this thread I blame you and your ancestors.

[delanvital]

I'm struggling to see how making someone an admin would make them more likely to play on a server. This may be a personal thing, but my career is where I work toward advancement and getting up the ranks for the associated rewards. I don't play here so that one day I can take TL's role.

I have a wee comment to that - making someone an admin does increase gameplay and where it matters - when playing on the public servers in the off hours. I believe that is one of the reasons why Whitey created the concept of a trainee or junior admin, which I have been for 1-2 years or so. This allows me to kick the ignorant troublemakers and help those that want to learn. If not, and there was no admin, I would probably end up leaving the server, since just one troublemaker can kill the game... Taking time zone differences (and my lack of life atm) into consideration, I often play a bit earlier than you do and being able to junior-admin the game has helped me keep playing on our public server - where the potential members are.

[Penfold]

.....but at the end of the day we are all HUMAN.

This means we thrive on attention, praise and recognition.  If we as individuals (not stagnating) are thriving within the community, then we are likely to grow and bring others with us.

We're moving from the Community now on to something different.....  [/SIZE][/FONT]   and talking about comparative rank and social structure; the method by which people arrange themselves so they can exist in harmony together. It pits two opposing forces against each other and both are equally important; The individual versus community welfare. The object is to achieve a dynamic equilibrium between the two. Individual people can voice their views or can be completely subordinate ââ,¬â€œ both can be just as devastating in the long term to the Community.

 Members of any Community regardless of what form it takes will arrange themselves according to some hierarchy. Commonly understood written and unwritten rules can help to smooth the friction and ease the stress of maintaining a workable balance within the constantly changing system. In some situations, most individuals will not have to compromise much of their personal views for the welfare of the community. In others, the needs of the Community may demand total compromise of the individual. Neither is more right than the other, it depends on the circumstances but neither extreme can be maintained for long.

  A Community cannot last if a few people exercise their individuality at the expense of the community. But with no individuality there can be no change or adaptation....and in an inherently changing online world anyone unable to adapt is doomed. Itââ,¬â,,¢s striking the balance between the two and thatââ,¬â,,¢s something weââ,¬â,,¢re working on.

I appreciate the concept of reward and recognition - and the badge system is a visual marker for that. People like badges (my children will do anything for a sticker!). If you feel that members need to be admins to be ambassadors then it's a consideration and something for the relevant game admins (Blunt, Benny and Armitage) to consider as it's their call. Personally I see it as secondary and unnecessary to have to be an admin to promote dMw and our way of life but then I appreciate that, by your benchmark above, I'm probably on the other side of the boat than you. Like Benny, I didn't ask to become an admin (Hell, it took me over 4 years to become a charlie!). I was invited having spent years organising the running the LANs. I ran a good few LANs without recognition and before I was asked to be an admin - but it's something I enjoyed doing and got satisfaction from that fact that everyone (I hope) enjoyed it. I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just saying that I'm not sure that everyone would place the same value on it. (That said, I acknowledge I'm probably as much of a badge wh0re as the next person :wink: )

Anyway it's food for thought and a valid point.

Long and garbled but I hope it makes sense