Any issues?

[Jim]

-one of your healers has not glyphed properly for their spec

Lemme guess, that me?

[sheepy]

and probably me jim,

[TeaLeaf]

What did you mean by that? As a holy paladin, I'm pretty much used to think that i have to adapt my rotation to the kind of damage i have to heal, sometimes i can forsee them exactly (for example in IC fight - on Steelbreaker tank) and sometime i just have to figure out (in a very short time, of course) if that player needs an instant to survive for the next heal or he can survive 2 seconds for the biggest one (usually i don't consider flesh of light if not on a target with sacred shield on). What i'm trying to ask is: Is there a particular rotation i have to stick to at all costs, or were your words referred to another class?

Tirk, any healer will have to adapt to a fight, so things will always be different from fight to fight and from cast to cast.  However I was trying to make a more generic point in that if you are a healer with a specific type of healing assignment then typically the data should still look like that of that healer class with that type of assignment.  If you are veering away from the expected numbers/norms then there needs to be a reason.  That reason might be a good & valid one, but it might just be you doing something less effectively than better players.  The point is to look to see where you differ from expected theorycrafting returns and understand why.  The main problem is that most people who are underperforming do not understand why and have probably never bothered to look to find out.

TL.

[Tirkad]

Rofl... I know you don't want to do names, TL, becouse it's a bad attitude and all, but since you're an officer and people is beginning to speculate wildly on those names i think it's better to have those names before the ones who glyphed/specced good change their spec by mistake getting the situation worse. :narnar:

Edit: Anyway, things are going to change a lot in the next patch: with the fix on the beacon of light and the new holy goodies, i guess it will be much more fun to play. Pity for the n-th nerf on illumination tho.

[kregoron]

Rofl... I know you don't want to do names, TL, becouse it's a bad attitude and all, but since you're an officer and people is beginning to speculate wildly on those names i think it's better to have those names before the ones who glyphed/specced good change their spec by mistake getting the situation worse. :narnar:

Edit: Anyway, things are going to change a lot in the next patch: with the fix on the beacon of light and the new holy goodies, i guess it will be much more fun to play. Pity for the n-th nerf on illumination tho.

Well i guess the reason that TL isnt telling names here, is that it isnt really his job to do this, everyone should continually looking at the spec/glyphs and so on, so if people just had a look, compared with their spec, it becomes quite clear fast what could be a benefit to adjust..
I bet he would be more then happy if asked nicely, and so would i

[Tirkad]

Well i guess the reason that TL isnt telling names here, is that it isnt really his job to do this, everyone should continually looking at the spec/glyphs and so on, so if people just had a look, compared with their spec, it becomes quite clear fast what could be a benefit to adjust..
I bet he would be more then happy if asked nicely, and so would i

When i joined this guild, Evo offered to help me improving my skills with my paladin. needless to say, i took the chance at once, and we still use to discuss better ways to improve our contribution to the raid, only that the others don't see most of it, since it's usually done through whispers. However, that's becouse it's how i'm used to interact with other people. I know by experience that there are people who think they're doing it right, since noone is telling them anything, and thus they don't dare changing anything, sometimes afraid to get things worse. Since i'm not an officer, and i don't think i know the other classes better than the players who play them, i don't dare giving advices, but i'm happy if an officer, as much as anyone who knows how to play my class, gives me advices or just tells me his point of view.
This is a game in constant evolution, with patches and hotfixes changing it without much of a warning, usually, and it's not rare that a person has to change a lot his play style according to the new theorycrafting to keep the pace.
That's why, in my opinion there's nothing wrong if an officer tells you explicitly what he thinks you can do to improve your contribution to the raid (and of course to the whole guild). But again that's just my point of view.

[TeaLeaf]

Tirk, sorry if you thought I was being evasive.  The reason I did not bring up names is that whilst I am an officer here in the DMR guild I am not a raider here and therefore I feel slightly less comfortable in posting a list of "you should do this" things when I do not know the personalities involved as well as I would like.  The other reason was that I took a quick look at one random healing class only, not all classes, and I did not want to single out people from one class when I had not also reviewed other classes too.  It was priests out of interest, but I am sure that similar information is available for other classes if I looked at the logs.  I was not trying to stop people learning, I was trying to fire up some interest in improving performance.  I tried to do the same in the Hodir night raid thread by pointing out the difference in dps when the buffs are used properly, but I am not sure how many people actually saw the staggering numbers.

TL.

[Jim]

It was priests out of interest.

Ok, now we know what class it is, feel free to tell us the names, do it by whisper / PM or whatever, i dont mind any help that im given but if no-one tells me that im doing something wrong, how am i gonna know?

I do check the logs and theres some fights i'd love to try and improve on, take Hodir, i could easily throw on more PW:S's on people to help with mitigation, but i have far too much to be watching to worry about PW:Sing more than myself + The Main Tank, and giving someone a 5k absorb while in the same GCD the tank ends up dieing then its just not worth it... And its far to much of a mana burn seeing as im healing, moving and dispelling on the fight :S I barely manage to keep enough mana to heal before enrage.

Just my 2p

Oh and another thing,

I think we spend far to much saying to people during raids that they're doing something wrong and then neglecting the people that are doing a great job... not saying this in a way to "big myself up" but on the Hodir fight, i was busting my backside off to keep people dispelled from the Frost Nova, and not one person said "Great Job on the dispels Jim, Keep it up!"... More of that = more motivation = more focus on bosses = more kills... simples

Jim

[Tirkad]

Tirk, sorry if you thought I was being evasive.  The reason I did not bring up names is that whilst I am an officer here in the DMR guild I am not a raider here and therefore I feel slightly less comfortable in posting a list of "you should do this" things when I do not know the personalities involved as well as I would like.

Well, as i said on the other posts, i always prefere to be spoken to explicitly, instead of playing the "guess who" game. In addition, if you're not thinking of yourself as a raider officer, i think you're at very least a really good consultant. But again, maybe you're right, maybe in the guild there is a I'm-the-best-player-of-my-class-and-shame-on-the-fools-who-tell-me-how-to-play-it person, i still have to know most of the people in the guild myself. :narnar:

[Grimnar]

Names should never been maked public in a topic like this or any other topic.
 
If someone can improve his/her playing by changing something it should be said by a pm. And then by an officer or by someone who got asked to look at it.
 
It is a game that changes alot and people need to adept every time on the changes for there class etc.
 
 
 
just what i wanted to add after reading some...

[Jim]

It is a game that changes alot and people need to adept every time on the changes for there class etc.
 

But in hindsight this is a game that WE play and WE can play the way that we want too, do we all really want to be exactly the same as any other (in your case) Feral kittycat as every other player, some people need their uniqueness

Ey, even me, i woulda gone holy if i had been forced into it, but chose disc because i love the spec and its what I wanted to play

[Améthyst]

Just a couple of things I agree with here.

Oh and another thing,

I think we spend far to much saying to people during raids that they're doing something wrong and then neglecting the people that are doing a great job... not saying this in a way to "big myself up" but on the Hodir fight, i was busting my backside off to keep people dispelled from the Frost Nova, and not one person said "Great Job on the dispels Jim, Keep it up!"... More of that = more motivation = more focus on bosses = more kills... simples

Jim

I too find that we have had far more negative reinforcement than positive which is a shame as many of our members do amazing jobs in raids & are never mentioned or thanked publically & no I am not asking for a pat on the back here I may make fish feasts but I am sure my gameplay still needs tweaks & improvement & no way could I dispell as fast as Jim.

Names should never been maked public in a topic like this or any other topic.
 
If someone can improve his/her playing by changing something it should be said by a pm. And then by an officer or by someone who got asked to look at it.
 
It is a game that changes alot and people need to adept every time on the changes for there class etc.

Again, I agree names should never be said if it is to point out what is believed to be a fault or problem, as Ice says there are many other ways to get this across to the member.

Yes, the game changes all the time & we must be prepared to change with it to keep at the top end of it.

But in hindsight this is a game that WE play and WE can play the way that we want too, do we all ready want to be exactly the same as any other (in your case) Feral kittycat as every other player, some people need their uniqueness.

But, it is only a game, we should laugh, smile, & have fun first.

[Gandalf]

We are looking at ways of better getting across suggestions, etc. And we have dealt with a few members privately and improved their game no end. I have helped a couple of people with specs and rotations but nothing like some others.

I agree that, unless the member posts in the forum asking for help, offers to help should be made via /w or PM.

So, everyone. Please keep an eye on the logs and if you're coming up short in the dps compared to others of your class and you'd like some help, have a word with some other members for some suggestions. We are all here to help each other.

[Fatdog]

Just to add my thoughts on this.

I always read Elitist for the most up to date information, i am continually looking at my logs and comparing them to others of my class (dill) to find out why there dps is better than mine, looking at percentages of different spells used in specs and things like that.  I also have little whispers in game to see what spec they tried and why they do different things in some fights.

I think this is the best way of learning, and it keeps u on your toes about your best spec.  Also it helps if you an play the spec that you enjoy most!

[Mat]

Well, i think this discussion is misdirected now. Idea of TL post was (in my opinion) to show us, that combat log is very useful in many ways. It was example what we can see after 2 mins checking that. Unfortunatelly we start to argue around, instead of go to this log and try to check what we can discover there to improve.

Anyway, my input here is about to agree with Ducky arguments atm. I feel we are miss some understanding "casual raiding" rules. Casual raiding still needs everybody work and effort. It means we need to be on time, prepared, with knowledge of tactics (videos available on website are 5-8 mins long).
I understand it as respect to others. Some ppl (like me) value those 3 hours 2-3 times a week very much, so would like to see everybody else do so as well

Anyway, we do good work, and lets keep it!