Bastion of Twilight: Cho'gall - Defeated March 31st 2011

[Slush]

Question @ Slush, how many times do you use youre mana tide totem in this fight?

2 times.
1st time is when Mr. Choggy is at 60-70%, after Shadow Orders. This is when things start to heat up, people start getting corrupted and AoE heals has to be done through chains instead of rain due to everyone running everywhere.. Small adds+Shadow Orders is mana intensive.
2nd time, as close as possible to 2nd phase, or in 2nd phase if possible.


This guy needs massive dps. Its a race. Chog->Adherent->Fester Blood. Its all nuke nuke nuke. So I say we keep tweaking with what we have, as we got him to... 24% - 18% - 14% yesterday.
Havent looked through logs yet.
In phase 2.. ok, we might need priest dispells when things are getting out of control. I still see phase 2 as panic phase, though.
If we learn to control the transition, and everyone is confident about their role, this will be done soooon.

Are we extending lockout?

[Arcticfire]

IMO, I would use it more, like 3 times, maybe even 4(fight shouldnt take that long, but you never know), maybe it isnt that effective on youre mana bar but im sure it will be on others.

[Slush]

IMO, I would use it more, like 3 times, maybe even 4(fight shouldnt take that long, but you never know), maybe it isnt that effective on youre mana bar but im sure it will be on others.

No, well... almost no.
1st of all, me and Tirk is usually pwetty ok on mana until Choggy at 60-70%. If we are not ok on mana, it means that someone is taking too much damage/group aint stacking up/got too much corrupted blood = might be a wipe in progress already...
2nd. It has a 3 minute CD. Soooo... After 30secs, 3minutes and 30secs and after 6mintes 30 secs would be best, yeh? But..
Our best try, when we got him to 14%, we spent 7 minutes and 14 seconds on that fight.
Spending a mana tide when Choggy on 93% is close to wasted.
As stated earlier, I want to get my mana up after Shadow orders+small adds phase, thats when its needed.
Not having a tide before/early during burn phase is risky. He reaches this phase at 25%. And.. yeh, mana totem is needed here.
I want to be at 100% mana when we get to that phase, and with tide.. and possible mana hymns, im guaranteed 50%+.

Sending good karma to TL and Switch for great hymns yesterday! :-)

Even on our best tries, we had mana issues. We had these because adds went into groups. And started corrupting our blood -> Vomit -> Dispells -> Chaos
When this is sorted properly.... and it was sorted properly most of the time, these mana issues wont be there. Its only a matter of finding a way to kill the adds before they reach us. Us, as in whoever has aggro on them.

[Arcticfire]

I actually use it when im at 80-85% it will get you full, meaning you can use it another 2 times during the fights, its not about having a full bar during a phase its about having as much as mana during the entire fight, if you use youre mana tide more during a fight it means you can save the hymns for when its needed.

[Slush]

I actually use it when im at 80-85% it will get you full, meaning you can use it another 2 times during the fights, its not about having a full bar during a phase its about having as much as mana during the entire fight, if you use youre mana tide more during a fight it means you can save the hymns for when its needed.

I understand your reasoning, but I disagree. This fight contains of a few healing spikes. The biggest is at 25%->0%.
And, to be honest. I dont care if I run with 50% mana throughout the fight, and everyone lives, as long as I have maximum (as much as I can possibly get) mana when burn phase hits us. This is really when things get ugly. And when things get ugly, I use every GCD for something useful aka I try to drop my Mana Tide before Chogster is at 25%.

Further: If you use Mana Tide at 80%, tahts... 1 and 20 seconds into the fight.
You get next Mana tide up 4 minutes and 20 seconds into the fight.
Last one is 7 minutes and 20 seconds, and by that time, we should already be in burnphase.
This is if you manage timers with awsomeness. If you dont manage timers and GCDs with awsomeness, you wont see the 3rd Mana Tide.


Edit: To repeat one important thing: Mana is only an issue when something doesnt work out as planned. This far, we have been unlucky, but we are getting closer. And closer... And closer...

Double edit: Im close to full on mana when Chogmeister is at 80-85%

[Arcticfire]

If I read youre statements correctly then I read you only care about mana recovery when you need it, you say you want to be full when the phase starts.
 
Id say, why not be full whenever you can, meaning you might not be 100% when it starts but you can get mana recovery during that phase.
 
As long as mana recovery has use, why not use it? its not like its going to waste and the quicker you use it the more you can use it.
Its not like the 20%(just making up a number) you get from the totem will be gone after a few seconds, its either used or still in youre bar.
 
Ninja edit: I use my Core of Rip. whenever I can, even if im at 90%, I use my other trinket whenever its done(only 4.2K per minute but still, mana = mana).

[Slush]

I dont think its possible to explain in any other way that:
I dont want to risk running OOM in last phase. Every in last phase for GCD is for a dispell/heal/movement/hug. I dont want to think mana saving heals/mana conservation in last phase, there is way too much **** closing in on the fan.
But I guess thats just my way of doing it. I feel comfy with it and it feels right.
If you want to do Mana tide 3 times in this fight, good for you. If it floats your boat, its good.

Now, RGW: That will be fun, eh?

[Arcticfire]

K let me ask you a question then:P,
 
Why would you want to get mana when you need it, if you can get it before that point and after?

[Slush]

K let me ask you a question then:P,
 
Why would you want to get mana when you need it, if you can get it before that point and after?

Why would you want mana after you need it?
I like to have my mana when I need it.

[Arcticfire]

That "need" was directing at the point you want full mana at the start of the burn phase.
 
My view at how you want youre regen is  that you want  1 or 2 mana regen "phases" to prepare for the upcoming phases.
 
How I would do/want it is to spread it out, making more use of it so you have more mana over the entire fight, and therefor also during the phases you want it.
Maybe you want be at 100% at the start but 2x50 makes 100 aswell, and im pretty sure that if you spread it our more and increase the use of it that it wont 2x50 but maybe 3x40 or 2x 55 or whatever.

[Slush]

My view at how you want youre regen is  that you want  1 or 2 mana regen "phases" to prepare for the upcoming phases.

Yes and no. I want regen to happen before intensive phase and after intensive phase to "get ready is something bad happens". This is why we do hymns and Tides and dance nekkid between 30% and 25% in this fight.
-30% - stop nuking boss. Get ready for adherent.
-Kill adherent
-Kill small adds
-Gather mana, and move boss to position.
-Get to boss to 25% and blow heroism.

Its ok if you can put down the Mana Tide Totem on 12% in this fight. But for me, no thanks. This totem only gives 8-12k mana, and it uses as previously mentioned a GCD.
Therefor: I want it down before 25% is reached. At 25%, there is so much bad stuff going on. And we are only 2 healers.

If I aim for 3 Mana Tide totems, there is no way I will be able to put down the third between 30% and 25%

and im pretty sure that if you spread it our more and increase the use of it that it wont 2x50 but maybe 3x40 or 2x 55 or whatever.

Why would I want to spread it out to having to do a mana totem at 12% when we might already be wiping then. Timers. Its not a 10 minute fight.

[Arcticfire]

I just wont get that you dont want to use the totem to get from 75% to lets say 85-90% whenever you can and therefor increase the chance you can use it again.
 
Mana tide only effects base spirit so it has no extra use to combine it with hymns, the mana wont be gone its either used or still there so in both ways it either had its use or it will have its use.
 
 
3 Mana tides is 6 minutes, giving 1 minute to burn some mana then its 7 minutes.

[Slush]

7 minutes is too much. By 7 minutes we should be in burn phase. Application denied.

And these rules are not set in stone. If there are heavy damage from somewhere(Tirk MCed and im on tanks or similar). Ofcourse I blow the manatide after 30 seconds. But as a general rule, I save this for 70ish% to have Manatide up again on 30-25%.
I understand, and I respect that you disagree. But when you get there yourself, you will see that Brunphase is INSANE on damage taken. I need all the mana I can have before that.

To use a manatide, when it doesnt give me more mana is not considered useful in my eyes. Again, I respect that you have a different opinion.
But I regain all the mana i need from 80-70%, and this brings me back to 100%. So why bother?

[Arcticfire]

by 7 minutes you should be in the burn phase, then thats great! youre already in the burn phase and then you get the mana boost to make it easier.
 
why bother?
caus of the many attempts I hear you guys are going OOM alot!

[Slush]

Wow. This is truly epic.
I say I am at 100% mana at 80%.
But you still want me to do mana tide totem at 90%.
I say I want full mana before we get to 25%.
You still want me to put down the totem at 12%. If timers are just a little bit off, this totem might not be done at all.

OOM - This happens, as previously stated... When something goes wrong. And with 2 healers only, we cant afford something going wrong to get this kill.

Im not discussing this anymore. GL doing it your way.