Ragnaros - DEFEATED 20/09/2011

[Azunai]

P2.5 always gives Middle yes? That's pretty handy to know! Should be good there yes. Especially with Middle Hammer I am always free after killing my own, with plenty of time to spare on others and often not really sure what to take. 7 is of course a much easier target for me than 1 as it's right infront of my face rather than across the room. It'll be fairly easy for me to wreck my own then dive into 7 afterwards. Consider it done :-)

[TeaLeaf]

P2.5 always gives Middle yes?

Nope, I just watched some more videos and it moves around.  I think the point that is important is that we have a solid strat for it if it is middle hammer and with the above changes I'm pretty comfortable that we have something that works.  I've edited the duff statement out of the OP!  Two errors in one thread, sheesh I need to retire!

[Twyst]

sheesh I need to retire!

Request denied!

I think you're an excellent raid leader

[TeaLeaf]

Adjustments from last night:

Revised Sons positions: re-worked to allow better healing in P2.5 (Jes & TL swapped on middle hammer)

Left AND Right Hammers:

1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8
Jesung|Torgen|TL & Sheepy, TL leaves at 50%|Grimnar|Halbarad|Hal stuns then all other dps|Whytee|Whytee stuns then TL dps

Middle Hammer

1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8
Jesung|Sheepy|Halbarad|Grimnar|Torgen|Whytee|Whytee stun. TL DOT|TL

P2 Dance adjustments:
Even numbered Seeds and/or clash with Engulfing, prio out of engulfing, then to collapse point infront of Blue at an angle to avoid Hammer.

DPS
We need to up the dps here.  We're running 12 minutes for the fight which is very slow, slow enough for us to get 2 heroisms into the fight (which is in itself good but bad overall).   We need to make sure that we push dps in every part of the fight, in particular when Sons spawn, there's at least 10 seconds dps time there before the Sons spawn so get into position & keep dpsing Ragnaros until he submerges, then you have plenty of time to turn and face your Son.  We need all the dps you can find here and are slacking at the moment and need more from everyone.

The Good News:
Hammers worked great last night so well done all on mastering that difficult phase of the fight.  I think we can safely say we are now on top of that aspect and it showed nicely by consistently getting into P3 and of course ultimate in the traditional sub-1% wipe.   Ode for another 0.9% dps and we would have had the kill last night!

[TeaLeaf]

Last night was what the US Army calls a 'cluster ****'.   We really screwed the pooch last night and only had time for 6 tries on Ragnaros - and we even managed to screw those up too.   We need to get back our focus fast.

Logs are here:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1dzwfh0q4cbnuadd/

Ragnaros Survivability is here:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1dzwfh0q4cbnuadd/survivability/?enc=wipes&boss=52409

Ragnaros Death Overview is here:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1dzwfh0q4cbnuadd/deaths/?enc=wipes&boss=52409

As an exercise in understanding why we died, if you were the first or second to die on any try, please can you post here in this thread why you died so that we can get a handle on how to make what we do more reliable?  It's only 6 tries to analyse and I've given everyone the links to the data, so let's see what we can come up with please.

I'll start the ball rolling by owning up to my own cock up on Try 3:

Try 1: Whitey - Lack of healing. I was tanking Rag at the time and other than Lifeblooms, and a couple of prayers I had no healing in the last 10 seconds before i died.
Try 1: Halbarad - From what I could see it was lack of healing up to the time up to my death, I was tanking rag for a time but whitey taunted him of me but I was never healed up enough to survive the seeds exploding

Try 2: Amberleigh - (TL comments:)Amber took a wrath just after Trap exploded.  Avoidable death if TL triggers trap at different time to Wrath (see Try 3 comments from TL).
Try 2: Halbarad - Lack of healing again, was during the seeds phase and I wasn't tanking raggy but was never healed up enough from the aoe dmg, only heals I got from amber the last 16 seconds was 1 Prayer of healing and 4 Glyph of Prayer of healing (got some other random healing as well but absolutely not enough)

Try 3: TL (1st to die) took a Wrath just as he stepped in to trigger a trap - combined damage too much.  My own fault, should have watched Wrath timers before triggering trap (damnit Jes, get online again soon to do your normal trap triggering role!).  Won't happen again as I now know the clash.
Try 3: Halbarad - Lack of healing from amber when tanking raggy, only got 1 GH and 3 Glyph of player of healing the last 15 sec

Try 4: Halbarad - Lack of healing from amber. Got 2 binding heals and 2 prayer of healing but nothing the last 8 seconds
Try 4: Torgen - (TL comments:) Standing in Magma?

Try 5: Whitey - Double molten seed hit as I was next to JAS when I ran out for Engulfing Flames, followed by 2 melee hits from Rag. Amber didn't move out and jas had no where to run if i remember correctly.
Try 5: Jas/Puja - took more than one Seed explosion  

Try 6: Halbarad - Was tanking rag and never got big enough heals, got 4 prayer of mending and 1 flash heal the last 15 sec from amber and that's not enough, got some spare heals from jas and 1 riptide from puja but they are doing other jobs so I can't blame them for not healing me
Try 6: Torgen - I died due to Engulfing that happens during the killing of seed adds, which was in the Front. I move out of this by moving to max melee range. Going out far enough first then shoving back in until I can hit Ragnaros again - that's the safe spot where I won't get hit by Engulfing. I must have had a seed targeted however, as I didn't get in range despite moving forward. Ultimately I moved forward into Engulfing, heard the EENGG! by GTFO and hopped back out, but died regardless. While not looking to blame something else -> we were already pretty low on HP iirc, cause 1 Engulfing doesn't kill.

[Whitey]

Try 1:  Lack of healing.  I was tanking Rag at the time and other than Lifeblooms, and a couple of prayers I had no healing in the last 10 seconds before i died.

Try 5:  Double molten seed hit as I was next to JAS when I ran out for Engulfing Flames, followed by 2 melee hits from Rag.  Amber didn't move out and jas had no where to run if i remember correctly.

[Azunai]

Try 6 I was second to fall: I died due to Engulfing that happens during the killing of seed adds, which was in the Front. I move out of this by moving to max melee range. Going out far enough first then shoving back in until I can hit Ragnaros again - that's the safe spot where I won't get hit by Engulfing. I must have had a seed targeted however, as I didn't get in range despite moving forward. Ultimately I moved forward into Engulfing, heard the EENGG! by GTFO and hopped back out, but died regardless. While not looking to blame something else -> we were already pretty low on HP iirc, cause 1 Engulfing doesn't kill.

[Slush]

Gonna nail it tonite. Tonite. Tonite.

Nailing tonite. No DCs tonite. (Work connection). Gonna so nail it.

[TeaLeaf]

Before tonight, let's bump for the remaining info requested in my previous post please.  It should not always be spending the time doing the wipe analysis, so I'd be grateful if we can spread the load.  It takes 1 min to figure out what happened and to post, so it won't take people long (thanks to those who have already replied).

[Azunai]

Gonna nail it tonite. Tonite. Tonite.

Nailing tonite. No DCs tonite. (Work connection). Gonna so nail it.

Main reason for that will be the nerf tbh. We better get him tonight ><

[Michelanio]

Try 1: From what I could see it was lack of healing up to the time up to my death, I was tanking rag for a time but whitey taunted him of me but I was never healed up enough to survive the seeds exploding

Try 2: Lack of healing again, was during the seeds phase and I wasn't tanking raggy but was never healed up enough from the aoe dmg, only heals I got from amber the last 16 seconds was 1 Prayer of healing and 4 Glyph of Prayer of healing (got some other random healing as well but absolutely not enough)

try 3: Lack of healing from amber when tanking raggy, only got 1 GH and 3 Glyph of player of healing the last 15 sec

Try 4: Lack of healing from amber. Got 2 binding heals and 2 prayer of healing but nothing the last 8 seconds

Try 6: Was tanking rag and never got big enough heals, got 4 prayer of mending and 1 flash heal the last 15 sec from amber and that's not enough, got some spare heals from jas and 1 riptide from puja but they are doing other jobs so I can't blame them for not healing me

Summary: I didn't get enough healing when I was tanking raggy and even when I wasn't tanking him I hardly got any heals and died from random dmg and the dot from raggy wish is strange since I should have amber healing me almost constantly

[TeaLeaf]

Try 1: Whitey - Lack of healing. I was tanking Rag at the time and other than Lifeblooms, and a couple of prayers I had no healing in the last 10 seconds before i died.
Try 1: Halbarad - From what I could see it was lack of healing up to the time up to my death, I was tanking rag for a time but whitey taunted him of me but I was never healed up enough to survive the seeds exploding

Try 2: Amberleigh - (TL comments:)Amber took a wrath just after Trap exploded.  Avoidable death if TL triggers trap at different time to Wrath (see Try 3 comments from TL).
Try 2: Halbarad - Lack of healing again, was during the seeds phase and I wasn't tanking raggy but was never healed up enough from the aoe dmg, only heals I got from amber the last 16 seconds was 1 Prayer of healing and 4 Glyph of Prayer of healing (got some other random healing as well but absolutely not enough)

Try 3: TL (1st to die) took a Wrath just as he stepped in to trigger a trap - combined damage too much.  My own fault, should have watched Wrath timers before triggering trap (damnit Jes, get online again soon to do your normal trap triggering role!).  Won't happen again as I now know the clash.
Try 3: Halbarad - Lack of healing from amber when tanking raggy, only got 1 GH and 3 Glyph of player of healing the last 15 sec

Try 4: Halbarad - Lack of healing from amber. Got 2 binding heals and 2 prayer of healing but nothing the last 8 seconds
Try 4: Torgen - (TL comments:) Standing in Magma?

Try 5: Whitey - Double molten seed hit as I was next to JAS when I ran out for Engulfing Flames, followed by 2 melee hits from Rag. Amber didn't move out and jas had no where to run if i remember correctly.
Try 5: Jas/Puja - took more than one Seed explosion  

Try 6: Halbarad - Was tanking rag and never got big enough heals, got 4 prayer of mending and 1 flash heal the last 15 sec from amber and that's not enough, got some spare heals from jas and 1 riptide from puja but they are doing other jobs so I can't blame them for not healing me
Try 6: Torgen - I died due to Engulfing that happens during the killing of seed adds, which was in the Front. I move out of this by moving to max melee range. Going out far enough first then shoving back in until I can hit Ragnaros again - that's the safe spot where I won't get hit by Engulfing. I must have had a seed targeted however, as I didn't get in range despite moving forward. Ultimately I moved forward into Engulfing, heard the EENGG! by GTFO and hopped back out, but died regardless. While not looking to blame something else -> we were already pretty low on HP iirc, cause 1 Engulfing doesn't kill.

So this is where everyone died (I filled in blanks where we had a missing response).  The good news is that there is nothing here that is not fixable.

I looked at the first 2 deaths as 1 death is recoverable with a BR, but 2 is a wipe.

-6 tries
-12 deaths

-2 of 12 deaths due to TL learning when to trigger traps - these are now learnt and will not happen again.
-2 of 12 deaths due to Torgen standing in stuff. If we take the **** out of him enough he won't do it again.
-2 of 12 deaths due to not maintaining 6yd spacing for Seeds (this is totally avoidable and we should focus on this bit, it is called on TS and you get plenty of warning)
-6 of 12 losses of an MT, 1 of Whitey (Jas) and 5 of Halbarad (Amberleigh). (this is avoidable and happening way too often - on 5 out of 6 tries we did not heal the MT enough)

We *have* to learn from this folks; too many 'should not happen' errors are burning tries and wasting our time.

[Slush]

-2 of 12 deaths due to not maintaining 6yd spacing for Seeds (this is totally avoidable and we should focus on this bit, it is called on TS and you get plenty of warning)

-2 of 12 deaths due to not maintaining atleast 6yd spacing for Seeds.

Personally, I prefer 10yards. :-)

[TeaLeaf]

Difficult, as Engulfing Flames makes 10yds to far to run, especially when you don't have instant ghost wolf in your build  I prefer minimum spacing, but you are absolutely correct, >6yds, not 6yd spacing!

[Azunai]

My standing in Magma deaths are all on wipe calls (I just jump forward and die). I'm not so silly I would actually go and take a swim mid-fight for no reason ;-) That one where I died second to that, you must have called a wipe early or some other thing. I did not die once to that while not intending so myself (i.e. on a wipe).