Madness of Deathwing - DEFEATED 18/12/11

[Whitey]

I reckon these are some good suggestions to try (not all together, but separate) based on that thread

- Drop a tank, add a DPS, thereby killing Corruptions before 2 impales and soaking the Impale using bubble/BoP

- Change platform order, allowing for the killing of the bolt on the last platform (losing Kalecgos, how big of an impact will this have on killing Regenerative Bloods?)

I don't see how those two will work together as we won't be able to get the big tentacle add down before the second Impale without the dps boost.

[Azunai]

They won't. That is why I said "not all together, but separate" ;-)

[TeaLeaf]

Uncertain on whether to change tactic on this or not.

I see the logic in one more dps and going on tank, but it also creates problems in other areas, like Tetanus, bloods (or impale) etc if the tentacle is still up.

But dps is right on track for a kill at 385k rdps when compared to other guilds who also 2 tanked/3 healed the encounter, so the current strat is sound, it just needs to get through that final Elementium Blast and the transition which probably means a slightly changed raidwall combo.  Current strat & current DPS levels should give us a kill at about 13.5 mins, so we're literally 2 mins from the kill with one nasty transition to get through plus the burn phase into the soft enrage.

[TeaLeaf]

I think on relfection I'd like to try our current strat one more time.
If that fails, we could try moving to Ysera > Alexstraza > Kalecgos > Nozdormu and then see if the dps holds up on platform 4 and in P2.
If not, we can then drop to either 1 tank or 2 heals (2 heals only if Nozdormu is last).  
2 healers might hurt sub 5% in P2 due to the high damage inbound on the raid at that point (50k per tick).

Think that's how I see it panning out atm.

[Slush]

Uncertain on whether to change tactic on this or not.

I was thinking the same after I posted and read the other posts. We worked through the platforms, and at the end we managed to keep tanks + ourselves up through that bolt.
Our progress is good, but I think we all hoped/expected to be 8/8 after the great thurs+sun raids. Keeping calm and focus on current tactic might be the key here.

[hubbah]

Seeing the only thing we really failed on ( forgetting the personal mistakes of people including me ) is the last the bolt bit on platform 4 and up.
If you say the dps is ok even without the buff we could try a different way but seeing we wipes on like 1% on burn phase on platform 4 im not really sure we got the dps for it without the buff.
I havent looked at logs for that part so its just a guess.

anyway, i hope we get 2 full evenings on madness so we can get it down this week

[TeaLeaf]

A valid point Hubbah.  One of the things that will help dps is the better timing of heroism when we get onto Platform 4.  We used it late and as an after-thought last time, whereas we can time it better to be used at the beginning of the platform on the wing/arm & tentacle prior to the bolt arriving.  I believe this will make a significant difference to the dps on that platform and keep us ahead of the curve.  I'd say about 10 second into Platform 4 (tentacle spawns) might be the sweet spot as it will also allow some buffed DPS on the bolt which will then reduce the tick damage from it after it has landed.

[Azunai]

Yeah ok, fair enough. Remember we're going to get a lot of new kit as well, which in the end will only make it easier. If we can get this far on first week already, our current tactic is only going to be easier as the weeks go by.

[TeaLeaf]

Been looking into this a bit this morning and it seems to me that we're light on DPS atm and might need to move to a 1 tank, 3 healer strat to bring our rdps up to the required levels.  Most recorded kills are in the 400k rdps range (median & average) whereas we're at about 370k rdps.


That means the end portion of the fight sees far higher dps and we can clear platform 4 without using a heroism (which we failed to get to try last night due to the bolt wipe!).  Tanks are doing circa 22-24k dps here, so we'd lose 22-24k dps and gain a 42-44k dps (a net gain of circa 20k dps).  That would bring our rdps to about 390k rdps which is nicely within the range of dps recorded for kills.    Our current rdps at 370k rdps is at the very bottom end of what is possible to get a kill, so we either change group composition or improve what we do individually to get better overall returns.

The order we're using (Ysera > Alexstrasza > Nozdormu > Kalecgos) is generally considered to be good.

Alternatively, other changes might improve our position:
-prio blistering over bloods
-assigning specific sides to ranged, mid to melee etc for blistering

[Azunai]

-assigning specific sides to ranged, mid to melee etc for blistering

As for this, I was already doing a set few of them every time.
At the 3rd platform doing the mid one, then the furthest left, then the one 'in his armpit' that everyone seems to always forget ;-)
At the 4th platform doing the furthest, then working my way in, as they spawn neatly in a row.

[TeaLeaf]

Hmm, interesting!

hunters can deterrence to completely avoid damage from the bolt

Seems in general that a lot of people in P2 aim to kill one set tentacles, one set terrors, one set tentacles, off-tank terrors & kill boss.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

I think we do need to offtank and burn .... It feels like a race from the healing side with our heals only slowing the decay of heath never getting ontop of it. By the 2nd set of Terrors we are in the ball park where the damage coming in seems to be about the same as the healing going out (raid) and we still need to keep the tanks up

[hubbah]

For some reason im thinking its a beter idea to kill the first wave of tentacles then the first 2 big adds, dps boss down to 10.5% then 2nd wave of tentacles and the 2 adds.
With doing this we are freeing up the tanks ( and healers ) to do some dps as well + they would be in the aoe healing and the single target healing would be alot eazier ( i think.. cant really prove this )

A 2nd thing that i noticed in last nights attempts is that the we need abit more dmg to get everything going smoother ( is that how you write it? )
We came close to wiping on Cataclysm on last platform a few times and this is with TL & Jes multi dotting the boss while rest is on tentacle. Without the multidotting we woud probably not even make it.

And last a question from my part, if you both dident multi dot would that help us get the tentacle down before bolt spawns? and if so would it cost you alot of dps ( more then we can make up for ? ) on the boss?

Anyway, i had fun last night and hope we can get this one down next reset so we can start wiping on HC's ( damn they look crazy ).

[TeaLeaf]

And last a question from my part, if you both dident multi dot would that help us get the tentacle down before bolt spawns? and if so would it cost you alot of dps ( more then we can make up for ? ) on the boss?

Maybe, and perhaps I should try it, but I suspect not as the amount of HP left is usually more than a few seconds worth.  

For my part, I'm stealing about 1.3 seconds every 15 seconds to refresh VT and about 2 seconds to Mind Flay to refresh SW:P.  So I could add circa 3.5 seconds (I retarget whilst flaying so minimal time is lost) to the Tentacle which is 2 ticks of Mindflay maximum every 13 seconds.  Keep in mind that during that period I refresh DOTs on the claw/wing I already have all of my DOTs up on Tentacle, hence why the only lost DPS is the Mind Flay ticks.  All my primary nukes (buffed MB or SW:D) also go to the Tentacle on CD.

If the Tentacle is up for say 90 seconds, then lost Tentacle DPS due to multi-dot is circa:
(AveFlayTick)*90/2 = 12,000*90/2 = 540,000 HP (if Tentacle is up for less then damage lost is less)

Assuming Wing/Claw during the 90 seconds the Tentacle is up then DPS gain on the Claw/Wing due to Multi DOT is circa:
VT - 15 sec, 12k tick; SWP - 20 sec, 6.6k tick; MindFlay 2 ticks @ 12k to refresh

90/2*[12,000 + 6,600]  +  540k (from MindFlay above which would otherwise be on Tentacle) = 1,377,000 HP.
1.377m HP is the equivalent of: 3.5 seconds @ 400k rdps (which probably overstates the rdps as this includes AOE too)
1.377m HP is the equivalent of: 4.6 seconds @ 300k rdps (which is probably a more accurate 'gues's at single target rdps)

On most tries we could afford to lose the 4.6 seconds as we're typically 8-10 seconds ahead of the 'big badda boom'.  We sometimes get down to the last couple of seconds though, so a change would mean a wipe for those tries.  

The key question is, does anyone know the HP left on the Tentacle at the point the Bolt arrives on platform 4?  If it is close to 540k then it would seem best for me to NOT multi-dot.

[hubbah]

The times i was watching the tentacles at the time the bolt was about to come in we were at around 20% cause most trys i got to fire off 2 kill shots before switching. I think with dots ticking it would come down to around 15% after bolt is down.
Not sure how mutch healh the tentacles got so not sure if thats around the 540.000