Audio - 2014 F1 Engine Sound

[TeaLeaf]

Renault today debuted their 2014 F1 engine design meeting the new 1.6 litre turbo-charge V6 regulations.   The sound of these reduced capacity engines (down from this year's 2.4 litre V8 engines) has been a major source of concern to F1 fans, so much so that Renault provided an audio track of their unit being revved.  

Listen to it for yourself.

http://www.renaultsport.com/Come-on-feel-the-noise,2630.html

I'm one of the ones concerned that F1 just won't sound right next year and I'll be honest, the audio provided by Renault has done nothing to change my mind.   It just might be that they are not revving the nuts off the engine, but it just does not sound angry enough.

I found this video of the Redbull (also Renault) F1 engine (2011, 2.4 litre V8 with same rev limit) as a comparison and it sounds *sooo* much better.   Skip to about 1min into the video and especially the throttle blips at about 1min20, the top end on these engines sounds seriously angry and high pitched.  The 2014 engine sounds flat by comparison.

All I can hear from the 2014 engine is a lower pitched engine note (which might be the lower revs) and a continuous draft from the turbo's dump valve.

I am seriously hoping that the poor sound from the 2014 V6 is just due to low revs being used in Renault video - which in itself is a BIG mistake as it was a perfect opportunity to convince people like me that they will sound great in next year's Championship.  However the fact that they delivered a clip which appeared to accelerate up through the gears makes me worry that I will be disappointed with the new sound of the 2014 F1 season. :sad:

AUDIO TEST:
Open both clips in a separate tab and play them together.   Now decide if they sound different!


Fingers crossed for next year.    And great news that Oldbloke & Smilodon will get to hear the current F1 engines before their replacement when we go to the Friday F1 Practive day at Silverstone next week!

[Jamin]

The V6 max revs are 15k rpm so that would be 7.5khz x6 tones but the turbos are absorbing all the inlet and exhaust high frequencies and pulses, that characteristic high pitch whine of the current engines is due to 18k rpm making 9khz x8 tones of open inlet and exhaust pulses. There is no way the V6 will be loud and harsh as the V8, it should hummm instead, which is what it sounds like in the clip.

looks the business though:

[T-Bag]

I don't particularly care what they sound like*. I mostly watch on TV, where the noise they make is almost entirely dependent on my sound system...and I don't tend to turn it up particularly loud during the race. When I'm at the track, I've only done Silverstone and Spa, but you tend to camp close enough to the track to hear them. In which case it's more the volume than the noise you hear echoing round the surrounding area. When you're sat there during the race it might make a difference, but I'd have to experience both. I'm more worried about the reduction in speed.

I managed to get a free ticket for the race weekend but I'm not sure which areas it will get me into so I'm not sure if I'll be able to meet up with you guys on practice day. I think it's a section of track for marshals and not general admission.


*I'm a strange case though. I'm excited about the Formula E series despite them sounding like giant remote control cars.

[TeaLeaf]

I have visited F1 in some form almost every year for the past 10 years or so with additional irregular  trips going back 25 years or so.  In my experience, and in discussion with people I have gone to the circuit with, there are two major thrills that people get when they go along:  

1 - the sound (it is so much bigger and body-piercing than they could ever have imagined)
2 - the physics defying agility of the cars (your eyes tell you they can't make the corner at that speed but the car just did!)

I took my sister along to Silverstone one year.  She wasn't an F1 fan but thought it might be interesting to experience just once and I happened to have a spare ticket.   She's been back a half-dozen times since and is a major F1 fan now.   Her biggest reasons - the two points above.

When F1 went to Austin last year, the biggest buzz from the americans was 'the shock & awe sound'.    Several spectators were interviewed on TV segments over the weekend and the overriding feedback was that the sound was simply unlike anything they had ever heard before (it could not have been the grip levels that impressed on that circuit as it was dusty and green as hell).  I remember one guy in particular who said something along the lines of:

None of my mates wanted to come down, but when I got here and heard the F1 cars I jumped straight on my cell and told them they they just *had* to get a ticket and get down here as these cars sound unbelievable.

Keep in mind that our transatlantic cousins are well used to seeing Indy cars, but these are rev limited to 12,000rpm.   The F1 cars at 18,000rpm sounded totally amazing to them in comparison which was why F1 got the 'shock & awe' response in Austin.

When I'm at the circuit I get a kick of adrenaline when I hear the current V8 F1 engine, it's something quite special to hear in person and very different to the TV sound you hear which does not replicate the true sound at all well.  TV sound also tends not to send shock waves through your whole body either!

Nerfing the sound I think will remove a lot of the F1 thrill imo.  

The glorious Ferrari 3.0L V12 and the other 3.0L V10 engines which I have had the privelege of hearing were lost to regulations changes in 2005, but at least the current V8's still SCREAM at you and send the sound right through your body.   The old Ferrari V12 sounded like no other engine.  Likewise you could tell without looking when a McLaren passed with its Mercedes V10 which always (to my ears) had a rasping, angry sound to it like a rattle snake about to strike.

I missed the V12/V10 engines, but the change was only minor as a 21,000rpm V8 sounded different, but not so different.  

I will miss the V8 engines in a whole new way when 1.6L V6 turbo-charged engines take over in 2014.

The intended V6 engines for 2014 at the moment still sound very, very flat and unexciting.   I am just hoping that Youtube sound is doing for the V6 engine sound what our current TV braodcasts do for the sound of the current V8.

Perhaps the solution is to raise the rev limit again, incur the increased costs of higher performance engines and let the sound sing!

[sulky_uk]

tbh i dont think the sound wil be the same, but i also dont think that they are reving the nuts of the Renault engine either, sounds to me like no where near the rev limiter, and if it was on the limiter then it sounds sh1t

[sulky_uk]

new video up official  merc f1 you tube page

[video=youtube;ebpkJXJ7CFo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ebpkJXJ7CFo#at=31[/video]

[TeaLeaf]

I just died a little inside. :sad:

I sincerely hope they sound better in real life than the muffled PC version we're hearing.   It is so far from the current sound of an F1 car that it is not even funny.

[smilodon]

That being said I am now fully aware of how impossible it is to reproduce the sound of the current V8 engines on TV, You Tube etc. So maybe all is not lost?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[TeaLeaf]

Well, the Mercedes video is a simulation of the sound itself (obviously), even before the effects of the PC/TV.    Fingers crossed for a better live sound.

[Jamin]

Supposed to be Ferraris test mule with the new V6 in:

[video=youtube;od3H6Jxisfk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk#t=69[/video]

[sulky_uk]

doesnt sound all that great...they could have placed the camera in a better place, maybe that would have helped

[TeaLeaf]

Interesting (and bloody stupid) data from the FIA today:

New engines are not much quieter than V8s â€" FIA (oh really?)

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/03/11/new-engines-much-quieter-v8s-fia-says/

They reckon that the new 1.6l V6 engines are 'not much quieter than the V8' but also go on to give contradictory decibel levels for the engines:

2013 2.4l V8 - 145 dB
2014 1.6l V6 - 134 dB

As most people know, dB is a logarithmic scale, so a 3 dB difference means twice the amount of noise energy.   So for example, a 137dB engine would pump out twice as much noise energy as a 134dB engine.   So technically, the new engine is a shed load quieter in terms of noise energy (aka SPL).

However, the way our ears perceive sound is different, so 137 dB does not sound twice as loud as 134 dB.  In fact, if a 137 dB engine existed we'd need to have them next to each other to be able to discern the difference.  

However, last year's 2013 engine was not a 137 dB unit, it was a 145 dB unit.  So in comparison to the 2014 power unit we're looking at a massive drop of 11 dB.    In terms of perceived loudness, it is generally accepted by engineers that a difference of 10 dB results in a doubling of our perception of the loudness of a sound.  

Thus a 145 dB unit should sound about twice as loud as a 134 dB unit.

How does the FIA equate this halving of loudness to "new engines are not much quieter than V8s"?   Since when is a halving the same as 'not much'?   How about we get the FIA to donate a 'not much' amount of their assets to the dMw coffers?  :blink:

The 'not much quieter' 2014 engines are precisely why F1 TV journalists can now stand trackside, without ear plugs, and hold a perfectly audible spoken interview with someone whilst an F1 car goes past them less than 10 yards away.   Try doing that with a 2013 engine and both interviewer and interviewee would be deafened and nobody would be able to hear what they said over the mic unless they were shouting.

'Not Much'.   The FIA's new definition of 50% change. :frusty:

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Its a massive difference in db.....

V8 sound has been replaced... its now V6 +gearbox+Road/wind noise.

Im a big fan of F1 but the direction its going saddens me. So many restrictions stop it from being cutting edge even to the point where road cars are more advanced than these posh go-carts in some areas

[Tutonic]

Its a massive difference in db.....

V8 sound has been replaced... its now V6 +gearbox+Road/wind noise.

Im a big fan of F1 but the direction its going saddens me. So many restrictions stop it from being cutting edge even to the point where road cars are more advanced than these posh go-carts in some areas

My thoughts exactly.

I want F1 to be the pinnacle of Motorsport. I want to see just what sort of insane machine these engineers could build, given a free reign.

These restrictions just make it sound very dull indeed, and I probably won't be watching as a consequence.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Gav]

I fully agree, it is getting ridiculous... I can see why they are going down this route BUT it is killing what Formula 1 once was. To me the sheer noise and brutal power of the big v12 or 10's, even the v8s to a point are a crucial part of the atmosphere and the theatre that make it what it is.

The difference is noise levels are already clearly lower in the video clips but I can imagine its going to be a whole lot more noticeable watching it live.