Minimum age?

[TeaLeaf]

I voted No.

I voted this way largely because we cannot control or enforce any limit that we set.  A law is only as good as the police who enforce it and this would be a law without any police at all!

I *do* feel that there is a minimum age below which I would not like people on our servers, but this is because I know that both my kids are too young imo to start playing CS and mixing with adults online (they are 8 and 3.5yrs old btw).

The only law that we can police is our own experience of players.  If they act immature then we can get rid of them.  If they act maturely then we will generally not have a problem with them.  Most underage (whatever that means) kids will be incapable of maintaining a steady mature conversation and style of gameplay on our servers.  Most underage kids do not want to spend loads of time with the mature group of people that forms the dMw Community.  In short, most underage kids, even if they sign up, will not stay here.  If they do stay here then they are likely to give themselves away by causing trouble of some sort (cos they're kids after all) and we'll have the opportunity to reprimand them in whatever way is appropriate.  

Underage kids are not a problem that we have here.  Define the problem before looking for a solution!

Having said all this, as a parent I was shocked to the core to be asked if someone's 8 year old daughter could join up and come on the server 'because she is quite good at CS'.  

My 3 cents.

TL.

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by Gandalf-LordOfJelly@Dec 30 2003, 10:19 AM
I knew there was a reason that some forums ask if you're over 13 when you sign up. (I think it's the vBulletin boards that do this)
 

I think this is down to the US version of when you are 'legally responsible'.  It is not a UK thing.

However, I believe we can add some joining text or circulate a regular email reminding people about our policy here.  That might cover the legal side of things.

TL.

[OldBloke]

Excellent debating Chaps. Some very valid points raised and argued beatifully.

My personal preference would be to impose a minimum age of 16. My main reason for wanting to see this imposed is because we run this gaming site for our members and I firmly believe that the majority of under-16s simply wouldn't make good community members. I for one would not relish telling an obviously ill-suited TCS player of tender years that they are banned because they don't match up to our player/forum standards. Tears at bedtime or what!

Yes I know we couldn't police it 100% but it would be there in black and white when an application is being made. In my view this is important as it covers us in a multitude of situations.

[Dr Sadako]

Originally posted by TeaLeaf@Dec 30 2003, 11:49 AM
Underage kids are not a problem that we have here. Define the problem before looking for a solution!

Having said all this, as a parent I was shocked to the core to be asked if someone's 8 year old daughter could join up and come on the server 'because she is quite good at CS'.  

My 3 cents.

TL.

If one should let a 8 year old play CS I would prefer as a parent (if I was one) that he/she played on our servers in comparison to public servers (we all know how it can be out there).

If they follow the rules there should be no problem. Still a PG13 (or similar) could be good for the parents to know that "that place is ok" and letting the kids play. It should not turn into a kindergarten though. I enjoy the maturity of our community.

[OldBloke]

Originally posted by Sadako+Dec 30 2003, 06:27 PM-->

[Dr Sadako]

Originally posted by OldBloke@Dec 30 2003, 07:42 PM
I'd be uncomfortable with bollocking an under 16.

Does this mean we kick out buttface and grim reaper ... *sniggers*

[albert]

As far as allowing kids to play on our servers, we are not a community like e.g. CoFR who cater for the kids of adult members. We would be morally obligated to constantly police the servers for every imaginable ting that kids should not be exposed to in order to be see to be doing our duty.

Too much work and quite frankly not enough of us have young kids we would bring along to MH and if we did they woul dbe well drilled in the rules by their parents.

I don't have any issues with exceptions to the rule being made for youngsters we know from past years on MH, but 16 is still my vote for the cut off and both server and forum signup agreements should involve the aplicant stating that they are 16 or over, unpolicable I know but if at least covers dMw.

[TeaLeaf]

Aye, a statement of some sort saying that by registering for the forums you are over and aware you shouldn't do X, Y and Z would be an acceptable compromise.  We wouldn't need to police it (other than we already do the behaviour of our members on our servers already) and it self-certifies from a legal perspective.

16 seems to be the age people are suggesting, is there any legal advantage to this or another age?

TL.

[Doorman]

Originally posted by JonnyAppleSeed@Dec 30 2003, 09:33 AM
Yes u did but voted different  <_<

I voted 'yes' but it's largely academic for the above reasons.

[smilodon]

With my white curly wig back on here goes. The only age with any legal relevance is 18.

The COPA 13 year old law seen on many web sites is a throw back to their US origins. I.e it's an American law and as TL says, there is no similar UK law.

Although people are given certain legal rights at 16 it is only at 18 that they are no longer the legal responsibilty of a parent or guardian.

If the age limit is being introduced to save us from the childish and annoying habits of young people then ban at any age you like, there is no legal protection for us associated with it.

If the idea is to protect The dMw from the rage of offended parents, whose children we may be introducing to a violent computer game about becoming a terrorist and blowing stuff up then it's 18 years old or don't waste your time.

So I'm sorry but 16 doesn't cover us from anything

[smilodon]

I'm sorry I made a mistake    I've left the above post intact in case someone has already read it. I've corrected it here.

The legal definition of a child is found in the Children Act 1989, and includes young people up to the age of 17. So 16 and below is a child. So if The dMw want to protect themselves legally I would assume 17 to be the cut off age.

On a related note making concessions for certain people may create more problems than it solves. The dMw could not plead ignorance as a defence anymore, as they had actually thought about the issues and created a rule to address them.
If later they decided to ignore that rule for certain under 17's, there might be additional problems. If any of these under 17's created legal issues for us, The dMw could find itself in a lot more grief than if it had no policy in place at all and just pleaded ignorance.

We knew there was a problem, we created a rule and then we broke it. Not good in court.

So I'd STRONGLY suggest that if we pick an age limit that is to address a legal worry then we stick to it like glue.

Again if we just want to clear 'tiresome kids' off the servers then any age will do and we can be as hard or as flexible as we like.

It's worth noting that UKCSL and Enemy Down don't see a problem and have no age limits at all. In fact most major CS forums don't have any age limit (or have left the pointless COPA 13 stuff in).

[smite]

Ok let me put my point of view.
I do not want to baby sit kids, the reason i play on MH is to get away from the screeching and pure mardiness that comes out of there mouths/fingers.
We are trying to build a community of like minded people and if we introduce kids that will change, yes there are some well behaved kids but there are a hell of a lot more that are not.

You would also have the problem of other members talking down to them even though we wouldnt admit it...it would happen point of case DA, DA does get knocked and talked to a little in haste sometimes and i think a lot of it is from his age. He gets told off for things that other members get away with.

[Squonk]

I do not want to baby sit kids, the reason i play on MH is to get away from the screeching and pure mardiness that comes out of there mouths/fingers.
We are trying to build a community of like minded people and if we introduce kids that will change, yes there are some well behaved kids but there are a hell of a lot more that are not.

i couldnt have put it better me self

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by smite@Dec 31 2003, 10:27 AM
DA ... ... He gets told off for things that other members get away with.

[smite]

Im not going into specifics so please dont ask