Server Upgrade?

[TeaLeaf]

Stryker. Oldbloke and I are planning a trip to BlackAdder later this month (final details still tbc) to do some maintenance work (to make 2 NICs work amongst other things), so I thought I would use the opportunity to ask about the potential for upgrading the server hardware.  The current spec is:

Epox EP-4G4M+ mobo
Pentium IV 2.0 GHz
1GB PC2100 Crucial RAM
40GB WD HDD
Dual NICs
and other peripherals.

The RAM could be upgraded to PC2700 along with a faster processor and it would make sense to bash a much bigger HDD into the machine.  Any other ideas?

Your thoughts gentlemen?

TL.

[smite]

I dont think that the memory will make any noticable difference but we could definetly do with a new HDD.

The 2Ghz processor is still a hefty size.......should we not wait another 6-10 months and upgrade that then? (What is the largest it can take?)

In the end it is only the server and CS isnt that intensive.....is it?

We can't put any other games on it as they require windows not linux.

[TeaLeaf]

Actually CS1.6 is fairly CPU intensive.  We are pretty sure that some of the performance issues are related to Steam's well-documented difficulty with Linux.  Windows runs better (but is still a much heavier load than 1.5).  One of the jobs on the list will be to move from the current Debian (2.4 kernel) installation to a fresh install of Windows 2003 Server.

The memory on its own would make a difference as it would allow the CPU to run with a full speed FSB, currently it is running a restricted FSB to keep the PC2100 RAM happy (you may recall that we originally bought PC2700 RAM for BA).   If you add a faster CPU too then you again have a big step up in performance.  

I agree re the HDD and they are cheap too

One of the issues is that if we are going to visit BA then it makes sense to do the hardware changes there and then (it saves another trip).  I also believe that if we waited 6 months or so and then considered the upgrade we would be looking at a total overhaul of mobo, RAM and CPU to take advantage of the new Intel platform.  Kind of swings and roundabouts imo, but I think this one would be cheaper and would stave off any other upgrade until next-gen prices come down to acceptable levels.

TL.

[smite]

Are there any problems with the server that requires an upgrade though??

It seems to cope quite well with three servers so why are we wanting to upgrade.


The HDD is so that we can share more but if we are not planning on adding CS servers or games then there is'nt any reason to change.

Sorry just my 2p.

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by smite@Jan 3 2004, 02:38 PM
Are there any problems with the server that requires an upgrade though??  It seems to cope quite well with three servers so why are we wanting to upgrade.

Huh?  You must have missed something, the server is *not* coping with the game servers we have - as more than adequately demonstrated during the recent tournament.  The Steam forums provide lots of juicy reading in that respect and seems to show that your average P4 2.0GHz cpu is at full load with about 16-18 people on a Linux CS box.  Apart from that the next question is: Will we be up there again in the next year or so?  The answer being probably not, so why not get any sensible upgrades done now?  That was my line of thought - pre-emptive maintenance rather than reactive.

TL.

[albert]

So let me get things in the right order:
1) As Debian Linux ain't coping too well with CS1.6, 2GHz cpu maxing out with 16 - 18 players etc. So we are to do a complete reinstall with Windows 2003 server and bin linux completely? (Stryker must be devistated).
2) Here are the specs of the current mobo:

Socket 478 Intel® Pentium® 4
2 x DDR SDRAM PC2100, 2GB max.
3 PCI, 1 AGP 4x (1.5v)
Intel® 845G 256-bit Extreme Graphics
Realtek RTL8100B(L) Fast Ethernet
MicroATX

so a RAM upgrade isn't in spec, so it would be an overspec, is this wise?

3) CPU recommendations for that board are P4 2400 400FSB, P4 2530 533FSB and P4 2800 533FSB. So we have a few KHz to play with but not too much.

Perhaps a full makeover is required? Mobo, CPU, RAM and HDD? Not meaning to put a financial damper on things, but we can put a new CPU and HDD onto that mobo and get an improvement, but we (could) shouldn't up the RAM past 2100 and can't put the CPU past 2800KHz so the upgrade potential is limited.

[Gandalf]

I agree with albert. As much as I like windows, Server 2003 requires a monster of a machine. I wouldn't even consider putting it on a system that only has one processor. And being Microsoft, you'll be patching and rebooting every other week.

Why the change to windows anyway? Is it to open up options for additional hosted games? If not, then why don't we stick a different distro on there to get the twin nics working.

Also, who is paying for the software? Win 2k3 is a pricey bit of code. And as it's hosted at crosswired it'll have to be legit, right?

[TeaLeaf]

RAM upgrade *is* in spec.  The BIOS update from 11/02 gave it PC2700 capability.  So an upgrade to a P4 2800 and PC2700 would give us a noticeable performance boost and shouldn't be that expensive.  I am loathe to organise a total refresh of the hardware when 64 bit platforms are about to become affordable.  As for W2003server, yes we would legit and the server should run it fine.  We would also gain a massive performance boost by not running steam under Linux.  Yes we are dumping Linux.

TL.

[Dr Sadako]

A question. Will we have the homepage and forums on a separate machine from the game server machine? I think that could help a lot too if we consider the FTP aspect of it.

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by Sadako@Jan 4 2004, 01:12 AM
A question. Will we have the homepage and forums on a separate machine from the game server machine? I think that could help a lot too if we consider the FTP aspect of it.

Yes, you should assume that the FTP is on a different machine.  

TL.

[Dr Sadako]

I am not really sure how much is needed for 3 CS servers on a Server2003. My experience is that the difference between PC2100 and 2700 isn't that great in comparison to a faster CPU. 1 GB memory should handle it without any problem irrespectively if it is PC2100 or 2700. I think that the machine we have is quite powerful but it is the cs+linux issue that makes it look "slow".

On the other hand if we look for a complete makeover (as Albert suggested) we can get a very fast AMD for little money now. The current machine could be turned into a LFS/Halo/other multiplayer server.

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by Sadako@Jan 4 2004, 02:27 AM
My experience is that the difference between PC2100 and 2700 isn't that great in comparison to a faster CPU.

But if you run a faster CPU at the slower bus speed then you are really wasting money.  Bus speed becomes more of an issue when the cpu loads increase, that's when you really start to notice what speed the ram is working at.  Combine that with its limiting effect on a cpu and you have a powerful brake for your system performance.

On the other hand if we look for a complete makeover (as Albert suggested) we can get a very fast AMD for little money now. The current machine could be turned into a LFS/Halo/other multiplayer server.

Agreed, but should we look at doing some minor work now (cpu/ram change) followed by a major overhaul to 64-bit in the future (when prices drop to reasonable levels) or do a major overhaul now (cpu/ram/mobo) and stay at 32-bit for the moment with the move to 64 bit postponed for a longer period?  (I have assumed that you would not want to go to 64-bit immediately as there is not a complete range of 64 bit binaries available from which to run our software).

As for the software platform, I think that the current platform would cope with Win2003server imo, but a faster cpu/ram combination would cope that much better.

TL.

[OldBloke]

Originally posted by TeaLeaf@Jan 4 2004, 12:37 AM
RAM upgrade *is* in spec.  The BIOS update from 11/02 gave it PC2700 capability.  So an upgrade to a P4 2800 and PC2700 would give us a noticeable performance boost and shouldn't be that expensive.  I am loathe to organise a total refresh of the hardware when 64 bit platforms are about to become affordable.  As for W2003server, yes we would legit and the server should run it fine.  We would also gain a massive performance boost by not running steam under Linux.  Yes we are dumping Linux.

TL.

I gotta concur with TeaLeaf here.

We have a problem that is evident when the servers are busy. As we are committed to increasing the size of the community then that problem must be addressed asap.

All comments by experienced server admins found by trawling the various forums show that someone at Valve cannot write Linux binaries. <_<

Major server providers have switched to Windows or greatly reduced the number of servers running per Linux box.

Sticking in a P4 2.8 and 2700 RAM, moving to Windows and relocating the forum/ftp will be major upgrade at minor cost.

[smite]

I did'nt know this when this post was originally made so my appologies if i was a bit abrupt, i thought we were upgrading just for the sake of it.

Sorry
Smite  :unsure:

[TeaLeaf]

The other thought that escaped me until now is that a 40GB HDD would probably do well enough if it was just for games only.  If the forums/ftp etc are on a different box would we really need more than the 40GB?  IF a spare HDD is available then sure, whack it in, but if budget is an issue then we could probably do without replacing the HDD?

TL.