Faster than a speeding 9800XT?

[TeaLeaf]

When CeBIT rolls around on 18-24th March it will be carrying a long awaited graphics chip.  After R&D cuts forced ATI to dump the radical R400 (now an R500 project) ATI will launch the new R420 graphics chip in a variety of flavours.  It is a nextgen evolution of the current design and should knock spots off anything either ATI or nVidia have to offer currently.

Codenamed Loki, the new R420 will be the 0.13 micron and low-k process that 9800 users have been waiting for since the launch of the 9600XT (RV360).  Highlights include:

• 150 million transistors.
• DDR II (not GDDR3 - just look at what happened to earlier nVidia DDRII cards to see why - the technology is still too young)
• Clock frequencies expected at 500 GPU/1000 Memory

256 bit memory controller (the R400 was planned to include a 512 bit controller but it proved too costly)

• 8x AGP
• An R423 version due Q3 2004 targetted at 64-bit systems and will support PCI Express
• Volume production by the end of Q1

nVidia are planning to launch their NV40 gpu at the same time, so it will be *real* interesting to see who comes out on top  I think the consumer will be the eventual winner though, so look out for reducing prices on 9800 stock and top end nVidia cards as we creep towards April.  We should expect to start seeing engineering sample reviews of the R420 in late February if all goes to plan.  Full  market volume should be with us by Q3.

A side note:  The R400 GPU was planned to be an entirely new core and was expected to totally dominate the entire market, unfortunately we're now going to have to wait for the R500 to get this design now due to the R&D cutbacks

TL.

[[CIGS]Strider]

It sounds really good! But I think I stick to my non-64-bit-system with radeon 9800 xt. I think I have invested enough money in this stupid thing !

[Dingo]

Update


ATI's entire roadmap revolves around the transition to PCI Express, in order to accomplish a bridge-free roadmap, ATI has to have two versions of every GPU: a PCIe and an AGP version (or an AGP substitute). Keep this in mind as we look at the GPUs due out in '04 since you'll be seeing two per market segment, one AGP and one PCIe.

R420 and R423 at the High End
We have been hearing about R420 for quite some time now and recently the name R423 has been in the headlines. As you can guess, R420 is the AGP successor to the R350 (Radeon 9800) while R423 is a PCIe version of the R420. The specs on the two GPUs are as follows:

0.13-micron low-k manufacturing process
160M transistors
~500MHz core clock
8 pipe design
6 vertex engines
Improvements to all of the basic architectural features (shader engines, AA, etc...)
256MB 256-bit GDDR3 (~1GHz data rate)
Single slot design
The R420/423 chips will offer twice the pixel fill rate and vertex throughput of the R350 core, as well as increases in memory bandwidth. Initial indications show that there may be two versions of the R420/423 with different memory clocks; one design calls for ~1GHz GDDR3 memory while the other calls for slower DDR1 memory. It isn't clear whether R423 (PCIe) based designs will eventually carry higher clock speeds than their AGP counterparts, but there is a definite possibility.

2004 ATI Enthusiast GPU Roadmap
Name Radeon 9800 XT N/A N/A N/A
Chipset R360 R420 R423 R480
GPU Clock 412MHz ~500MHz ~500MHz
Memory Clock  730MHz 1.0GHz 1.0GHz
Memory Width  256-bit 256-bit 256-bit
Process 0.15-micron 0.13-micron 0.13-micron
Memory Type  GDDR2 GDDR3 GDDR3
Pipeline 8 8 8
Vertex Shaders  4 6 6
Transistor Count  110Mil 160Mil 160Mil
Interface AGP AGP PCI-Express
Availability Now Q2'04 Q2'04 H2'04

Slightly less high-end: RV380
ATI's roadmaps call the RV380 the "world first PCI Express graphics controller," which says to us that we'll see RV380 before we'll see R423 (but not necessarily before R420). The RV380 will not have an AGP version, instead if you want AGP support ATI suggests you look at the Radeon 9800 (non-Pro) or the Radeon 9600XT, which give you an idea of the RV380's pricepoint. The RV380 specs are as follows:

0.13-micron low-k manufacturing process
~500MHz core clock
4 pipe design
2 vertex engines
Improvements to all of the basic architectural features (shader engines, AA, etc...)
128/256MB 128-bit (600 - 800MHz data rate)
Single slot design
RV380 seems to keep the same core clock as the Radeon 9600XT but potentially improves on memory performance thanks to a higher maximum memory clock. It looks like RV380 is just a PCIe derivative of the RV360.

RV370 - 0.11-micron
ATI's roadmap for the first half of 2004 closes with the low-end RV370 built on a 0.11-micron process. The RV370 will feature 4 rendering pipelines and 2 vertex engines but its 0.11-micron feature size should make the chip very affordable. We unfortunately don't have much more information at RV370 at this time.

Here's what to expect in the Fall from ATI:

The R420/423 will receive a speed-bump refresh called the R480.
The RV380 will get a similar bump with the RV410.
The RV410 will also be offered in an AGP solution, unlike the RV380.
The low end remains virtually unchanged, with the RV380 and RV370 trickling down to lower price points but there won't be any new cores below the RV410 in 2H '04.
Source: anandtech

[TeaLeaf]

Nice spot Dingo, cheers for the update! :thumbsup:  Interesting to see roll out brought forward a quarter - was that launch or volume to market though?  The originally mentioned Q3 was the volume to maket date.

TL.

[Dingo]

Believe they were talking about launch dates TL with volume to market still in Q3

[Maddy]

Hmm NV40 or R420/423 ? That is the question

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by Maddy@Feb 16 2004, 01:46 PM
Hmm NV40 or R420/423 ? That is the question

I believe the answer you are looking for begins with R......

If nVidia struggle to beat ATI when they are already on a 0.13 process, then when ATI move to it they will blow nVidia away.  The NV40 would have to be something truly spectacular to both close the gap to ATI and move ahead of them imo.

TL.

[Dingo]

Just spotted on beyond3D that ATI’s future high end part R420 made a small appearance. According to the Dutch Tweakers.net, in a short part discussing the GDDR-3 graphics memory, which currently seems to have speeds @ 500 - 700MHz (thus that is 1 - 1.4GHz effective as it's Double Data Rate).

The more intersting part was that ATI demonstrated a demo of the upcoming, DirectX9 title, Colin McRae Rally 4 on R420, which was quoted as running at 2 - 3 time faster than present DirectX9 capable hardware. Beyond3D contacted ATI to verify if this was R420 and they stated that they had demonstrated the title running on their future "Next Generation Hardware" which is as good an confirmation of this being R420 as you can get.

Darnit .. anyone wann a to buy a Radeon 9800 Pro ?

[Dingo]

Ooohhh, excitement knows no bounds!!    


Looks like the race is hotting up??

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14373



Can't wait for Ford to release the next spec for my Anglia!!    

[Anonymous]

Well, at the end of the day it doesn't matter which is faster. What is important from our perspective is that both nVidia and ATi continue to flourish so that their competitiveness keeps new, faster hardware coming to market and prices dropping.

Long live them both I say

[Dingo]

ATI R420 "skateboard" spotted


DDR 1 thing

 THERE WILL be two versions of ATI's forthcoming R420 â€" one one based on high end memory DDR2. Or let's say GDDR 3 as Nvidia and ATI call it lately.
GDDR 3 is higher clock DDR 2 memory that uses similar DDR 2 commands. Hopefully it runs cooler then DDR 2, but bear in mind that the current Nvidia 5950 Ultra has its memory passively cooled at 950MHz.

ATI is not ready to talk about clock speeds but we guess that it will be close to 1000MHz, or that's what the firm hopes. ATI is famous for faster clocked memory able to match the performance of higher clocked memory cards.

Cards will be equipped with 256MB or DDR 1 memory 8x32 chips. The memory bus is going to be 256 bits wide, as with the R300, R350, 360 marchitecture. I expect that cards will outperform Radeon 9800XT if the chips are clocked properly. We still don’t know whether the slower memory version of R420 will have a chip that runs at the same speed.

The cards will be AGP 8X and VGA, DVI and VIVO ready, as well as supporting DirectX 9.0c ready and I guess that pixel shader 3.0 is under that spec as well.

"Skateboard" is the code name that these Canadian fellows have for this card, just wait and see what name it uses for R423 GDDR3. It will be related to snow as well, unless ATI has one of its famous meetings and decides to change the code name at the last minute!!

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by Dingo@Feb 29 2004, 10:33 AM
The cards will be AGP 8X and VGA, DVI and VIVO ready, as well as supporting DirectX 9.0c ready and I guess that pixel shader 3.0 is under that spec as well.
 

Hmmm, no PCI-X?  :unsure:

TL.

[Tutonic]

When exactly is PCI Express due to start appearing on motherboards?

I dont want to upgrade until it appears, since it seems to be such a major change in architechture...

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by TuToNiC@Mar 4 2004, 02:32 AM
When exactly is PCI Express due to start appearing on motherboards?

I dont want to upgrade until it appears, since it seems to be such a major change in architechture...

AFAIAA we should start seeing volume production in Q2, so it's kind of imminent.  But remember that several CPU sockets are also due to change in Q2/3 so any major upgrade might be best deferred until Q4.  My next system upgrade will not be until Q4 at the earliest for these reasons and I suspect may slip back into 2005.

TL.

[smite]

Hercules 3D Prophet 9800XT Classic 256MB at overclockers.

Unless i am mistaken has dropped a whole £10 .....Come on there boys keep it coming down.