Hunting with dogs.

[Armitage]

With democracy in full flow today and with lords trying to stop it. What is the mood of the forum on the brutal barbaric toffs sport / "you townies don't under stand us country folk" / "we're only helping the farmer control vermin" / "we don't catch many anyway!" activity of fox hunting?

[Anonymous]

I tried hunting with dogs once. I couldn't hit a thing with them

[TeaLeaf]

It would possibly be slightly more helpful if the choices were a little more distinct.  Four options may be more than this little tick-turd can cope with choosing between :blush:

TL.

[sheepy]

there is no way it should be banned, i was discussing it at the golf club today and we worked out the odds of sucessfull kill/ no kill
1in 32 hunts ends up with a kill, with those odds and the fact that the ones that actually get killd are generally sick/lame animals i have absoloutly no problem with it.

[Norm]

I think its more the way they are killed that sticks in ya throat,than actual numbers that are killed. :eyebrow:

[A Twig]

I think that there's nothing wrong in hunting with dogs. It seems that torches and rifles are more lethal! And it's the start of a slippery slope. If you can't hunt with dogs as it could concievably cause the animal pain, will fishing then be banned?

No, I fully support the pro-hunters...

[Armitage]

Twig. How can being killed by a dog be less lethal than being killed a gun?

[smilodon]

Exploitation of animals? You're either for it, against it or a hypocrite who selectively chooses which animals it's OK to exploit and which it isn't. Based mainly on how much not exploiting them adversly effects your life. I'm no hypocrite, so I say kill 'em all.

[A Twig]

Originally posted by Armitage@Sep 15 2004, 07:05 PM
Twig. How can being killed by a dog be less lethal than being killed a gun?

One of the reasons given by the anti-hunting lobby is that hunts are dangerous to your average country dweller and its participants, however, the recent killing of the 12yr old boy who was mistaken for a fox illustrates that dogs aren't necessary.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.  :whistle:

[Armitage]

I not sure one tragic accident proves one way or another which is more dangerous.

Smilodons point about exploitation of animals is very intresting, but what would you call "exploiting".

[Phog]

Im gonna have to stay neutral on this subject. I've never been but i go to school with alot that are very keen huntsmen (and women). I also don't know enough about it to decide  :whistle:

[smilodon]

Exploiting =

People have either needs or desires.

Needs are things we have to have, such as air, water, food and shelter. Maybe stuff like love, companionship and security are needs too?

Desires are things we want, such as DVD's, holidays to Spain and games of golf.

If an animal dies to fulfill a need then it's not exploitation, but if it dies to fulfill a desire then it is exploitation.

Is fox-hunting a need or a desire? I'd say it's a desire and therefore exploits the fox. The question is what else is a desire rather than a need? A fur coat? A leather jacket? A steak sandwich? Do we need these things to survive? Or do we desire them?

Lord Toff might choose to enjoy his Sunday morning killing foxes rather than going for a walk. And I might choose to enjoy my Sunday morning stuffing my face with a bacon butty rather than a bowl of Corn Flakes. Either way something dies to enrich our day.

[Zok]

Alcohol induced rambling #238

I find it very difficult to condone the suffering of any animal for the pleasure of another animal, I have tried some blood sports in the past such as shooting and angling and although there is without doubt a “thrill of the kill” it was hardly a fair fight.

The argument for fox hunting has changed over the years (I am very old (not in the same league as Doorman and Brass), and it’s always been for the cause of the animals (is there such a word as animaltarian) that fox hunting is a good thing:
Then, fox hunting is good because it rids the farms of the evil foxes that tear the chickens to death.
Now, fox hunting is good because if there was no fox hunting all of the fox hounds would have to be put down, we wouldn’t need the stables and there would be mass unemployment in rural areas.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a “pinko lentil eating freak" who thinks that we should all be eating carrots and rice, animals are after all part of the food chain, even other animals eat animals (shock). Rather as mentioned above the reasons given for fox hunting have changed, more people see the fox as an innocent in a world where breeding, nobility and affluence give the chosen few the right  to do what ever they like, whether it’s morally right or wrong is of no consequence, as anyone not on their  level does not have the right to question them, this is the perception.

As with all alcohol induced rambles my reasoning at the start was crystal clear and my arguments were precise and to the point (please don’t buy me drinks at the lan, I’m very opinionated). I have nothing more to add as I have forgotten what it was I wanted to say.

I will not add my vote to this pole, I will say this:
I do not agree with the hunting of any animal solely for pleasure or sport.


Just as a footnote
As the fox has become more of  an urban creature it has become a cuddly critter, “ah look at that fox, poor little thing”. Imagine if that was a rat.

If rats were the prey of a bunch of gimps on horseback with a pack of hounds would there be the outcry?

[Benny]

The only clear argument is 'Does the fox suffer?'

Yes it does, but they need culling. So do it some other way, like tie it to a stake and make an example out of it to all the other foxes.

Like the feckers that sh1t in my garden, then my dog goes and rolls in it, and gets mange (which costs me a ton each time to fix). They tip up bins, they bite and they never phone or write afterwards.

Fox hunting for pleasure, no. Fox hunting with dogs, no, fox hunting to cull numbers with a great big blunderbuss, yes.


(I'll admit I did once try to talk my friends into going cow hunting with a 12 bore once, we didn't have one, but thought it would be a cracking chase - cows hide their thoughts real well, mind against mind, hunter against hunted, lure them into a corner, trip them up, then jump 'em)

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Benny@Sep 16 2004, 10:19 AM
I'll admit I did once try to talk my friends into going cow hunting with a 12 bore once, we didn't have one, but thought it would be a cracking chase - cows hide their thoughts real well, mind against mind, hunter against hunted, lure them into a corner, trip them up, then jump 'em.

Your real name isn't Gary Larson by any chance is it?