Unlocked weapons

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by sulky_uk@Nov 22 2005, 01:35 PM
can i try someones sa80 after they die as ive fired thousands of rounds on a real one and want to see what its like in game :dry:

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The SLR was a real man's gun. The SA80 is a toy  :devil:  

Let the flaming commence  :narnar:

[Dewey]

My custom Evolution Minicocker was very accurate and could fire around 12 balls a second, shot lots of people with that  

[Ranger]

Originally posted by BlueBall@Nov 22 2005, 03:30 PM
The SLR was a real man's gun. The SA80 is a toy :devil:

Let the flaming commence :narnar:

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(Ranger bites - as you would expect! LOL)

The SLR - L1A1 - or the 'mechanical musket' as it was sometimes known in the British army, was a fine rifle...

The 7.62mm x 51mm NATO round and long barrel made it ideal for the open plains of the BAOR area where it was invisaged to be mainly used...

Get it in a jungle though or the urban environment of Northern Ireland and it was a different matter though!

The Australians made a slightly shortened version of the L1A1 because of their experiences in Vietnam, but most people had bitten the bullet by this time and realized that the AR15 (M16) was the way of the future.

(One advantage of teh L1A1 over the AR15 that the Australians did point out was that the heavy 7.62mm round could actually shoot through trees - while the lighter 5.56mm round of the AR15 *could* be deflected by the heavy foliage in the jungle. For this reason the L1A1 was often prefered as use for the 'point' soldier. Much like the USMC experience where they used the 7.62mm M14 on point in preference to the M16.)

I remember the L1A1 with mixed feelings as I - like many rookies learning to shoot it - suffered from 'SLR-eye'! - This was a injury that inexperienced soldiers got when firing the SLR the first time, and was caused by the metal pin-hole sight and the hefty recoil of the rifle...The SLR would buck (if not held firmly enough) and knock the rookie just above the eye causing a gash = 'SLR-eye'.



By contrast I loved the 9mm Sterling SMG (but then everyone did).

Useless fact: It may be of note that while the AR15 became famous for use by the US Army in Vietnam that - actually - it was the British that first ordered the AR15 for use by the Royal Marine Commandos and Special Forces and for jungle warfare.

These AR15 were also reissued for use in the Falkland's War.

Finally - The L1A1 was - of course - a British version of the Belgian FN FAL. However, unlike the FAL it only had single shot semi-automatic - not the full-auto that the original FAL had.

The British Army did experiment with a heavy barreled verion of the L1A1 (with 30 round magazine) in Northern Ireland - as a sort of LMG. But this did not prove as good as the 7.62mm chambered BREN LMG.

Many still miss the L1A1 - just as many Americans miss the M14. And strangely enough 7.62mm seems to be making something of a comeback - both British and US Special Forces who are - allegedly - using special 'sawn off' L1A1 or FAL rifles for CQB.

[Anonymous]

Wow you learn something new every day.  :blink:

nice one Ranger

[suicidal_monkey]

12.70 (.50BMG) ftw! :whistle:

...

pity infantry can't really carry a workable handheld minigun :devil:

[A Twig]

Yeah, in my very limited experience I'm not at all impressed with the SA80. But then I have no idea what we would use instead...

And of course the marksmenship test had to be re-designed as they were now using a scoped rifle! Any rifle that randomly breaks down in anything other than a nice summer's day is rubbish as well.

[Armitage]

the vote is going 4v12 at the moment for allow. so vote if you haven't already

[sulky_uk]

Originally posted by BIG-Dewey@Nov 22 2005, 02:47 PM
Pen and Sulky, guys next time we are on the same squad, you can try my SA 80 no bother just give me a shout.

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cool and the gang

[target]

Originally posted by Ranger@Nov 22 2005, 04:27 PM
Finally - The L1A1 was - of course - a British version of the Belgian FN FAL. However, unlike the FAL it only had single shot semi-automatic - not the full-auto that the original FAL had.

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According to my old man who used this weapon during his time in the army, the L1A1 was routinely modified by troops to provide a full auto capability - apparently it meant removing the end stop on the safety, then you could move it past semi-auto and enter splurg-gun terrority.

[Ranger]

Originally posted by suicidal_monkey@Nov 22 2005, 05:40 PM
12.70 (.50BMG) ftw! :whistle:

...

pity infantry can't really carry a workable handheld minigun :devil:

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The problem is actually hitting something (ironically).

I *think* they tried to push a 7.62mm infantry version of teh minigun (the small calbre version of the 20mm Vulcan).

The main problem is actually NOT the weight of teh gun itself - various rigs (as you will have seen in the movies) have been made to make the gun man-portable. The problem is the battery!

The mini-gun (like the Vulcan) is electrically driven, from a large battery (think of your car battery and you get the idea AND the problem!).

Trying to heft round a 'convensional' MG like the GPMG or M60 is bad enough ~ but trying to carry an MG that weighs double that PLUS a car battery! Well, you get the idea.

Back to the 'hitting stuff' part of this...

As you know the mini-gun was developed primarily as a aircraft gun ~ designed to 'spray' an area with enough ammunition to increase the statistical probability of a hit from a unstabalized, moving platform (Cobra or 'Spooky')...

It was never designed as a 'point target' weapon - the chances of a infantryman actually being able to hit anything with the 'minigun' is highly problematic...And in a showdown between a soldier with a minigun and one armed with a M16 ~ who do you think would get the first kill?

Worse might be your idea of a .50 calibe man-portable minigun, as the sheer recoil of this, along with the huge force of the muzzel blast would undoubtedly send the poor guy straight onto his back.

Skeptical?

Well consider this...

One of the chief reasons why North Vietnamese soldiers were killed at a greater rate than US soldiers in an infantry to infantry engagement was NOT due to better training or better marksmanship. Studies showed that the lighter smaller Vietnamese physique found it very hard to control the recoild from the Soviet/Chinese AK 7.62mm assault rifle. The Vietnamese soldier had a habit of firing straight over the heads of the US soldiers!

The lighter calibre M16 shot a 5.56mm bullet which produced less recoil and thus was able to hit the target with greater consistance from a less spcialized marksman.

The higher muzzel velocity of the 5.56mm weapon also produced a greater balistic shock when it hit a human - so ironically it DID (despite what people say) have as much stopping power within close to medium range as the older, heavier 7.62mm round.

(This is the same principal and why so many policemen in the US use the smaller .357 magnum and not the larger .44 magnum.)

It takes a lot longer to train someone to hit a target with these larger, heavier calibres than with teh smaller higher-velocity calibres.

(IMHO of course - I am not a weapons professional.)

The theory is that it's better to HIT a target with a smaller calibre than miss it with a larger one.

Fans of the .45 round - of course - disagree! (Which was why it took so long for the US Army to change over to 9mm.)

[Dewey]

I also thought the high velocity round was actually designed to do a lot of damage to its target without killing them - the bullet was fairly light so tended to tumble around its axis on entry and deflect of any bone it hit internally, doing a lot of damage.

The theory was if you could severely injure your enemy rather than kill them outright, you are putting more strain on your oppositions logistics who have to provide care for that injured person rather than just leaving them if they are dead.

Cheery thought.

[Penfold]

Originally posted by BlueBall@Nov 22 2005, 03:30 PM
The SLR was a real man's gun. The SA80 is a toy :devil:

Let the flaming commence :narnar:

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lol that's showing your age BB.

When I did my RCB for Sandhurst the army had just switched from the SLR to the SA80 and it was causing havoc. I particularly remember the Guards' hating it as it was too shot to have the butt on the ground when standing on parade.

I also seem to recall that the SA80 can only be fired righthanded -else you got the spent cartridge in your face. I dunno if that got changed in later versions?

PEN

[Doorman]

Originally posted by BlueBall@Nov 22 2005, 03:30 PM
The SLR was a real man's gun. The SA80 is a toy :devil:

Let the flaming commence :narnar:

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Lee Enfield .303 Now THAT was a man's rifle. (This is my rifle, this is my gun. I shoot with my rifle, I play with my gun) Boer war saying.

[Blunt]

Originally posted by Doorman@Nov 22 2005, 10:57 PM
Lee Enfield .303 Now THAT was a man's rifle. (This is my rifle, this is my gun. I shoot with my rifle, I play with my gun) Boer war saying.

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wow...you've got a great memory Ron

[delanvital]

Originally posted by Doorman@Nov 23 2005, 12:57 AM
Lee Enfield .303 Now THAT was a man's rifle. (This is my rifle, this is my gun. I shoot with my rifle, I play with my gun) Boer war saying.

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I don't know TANGO about weapons - but that rifle rings a bell