Unlocked weapons

[Blunt]

Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) Mark 1 -- Introduced in 1906


Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee Enfield Mark 3 -- 1907, different sights
A wartime version for WWI had several mods for ease of manufacture


Rifle, Short, Number 4 Mark 1, Short, Magazine Lee Enfield - 1941
Top shown mounting Bayonet Number 9, bottom blow-up mounts "Pig-Sticker" bayonet

Muzzle velocity   2060 fps     2440 fps     2440 fps

Rate of fire     8 aimed rounds per minute

As one vet, Vince Gilligan, 3rd Battalion Royal Australian Army said:

"... on the Lee Enfield .303 rifle our mob(Australians) used in Korea. The brits used a later version with the pig sticker bayonet. We had the 18" bayonet (blued). One of the rifles I had was made in 1917-1918. It was a very effective weapon. At least if you hit something, it stayed Hit."

And after all, that's the idea.

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Doorman@Nov 22 2005, 10:57 PM
Lee Enfield .303 Now THAT was a man's rifle. (This is my rifle, this is my gun. I shoot with my rifle, I play with my gun) Boer war saying.

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True. I fired one a couple of times and remember how accurate it was.

[Ranger]

Originally posted by BIG-Dewey@Nov 22 2005, 10:34 PM
I also thought the high velocity round was actually designed to do a lot of damage to its target without killing them - the bullet was fairly light so tended to tumble around its axis on entry and deflect of any bone it hit internally, doing a lot of damage.

The theory was if you could severely injure your enemy rather than kill them outright, you are putting more strain on your oppositions logistics who have to provide care for that injured person rather than just leaving them if they are dead.

Cheery thought.

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The Soviet 7.62mm round - I believe - does have an inherent instability which does make it tumble over range. But this was unintensional...

The 5.56mm round is not designed to tumble as this would effect accuracy.

The lethality of the 5.56mm comes from the impact shock...

There is an interesting story of a US officer who was very skeptical about the 5.56mm round (as many US soldiers were at first). The first time he shot an enemy he was close enough to see the results...

The officer had entered a clearing (in Vietnam) to find a Viet Cong at the other side trying to get to the trees - the officer fired a snap shot which hit the other man in the shoulder.

The shock of the impact lifted the guy up in the air and spun him completely round 360 degrees and despite it being a shoulder shot he was killed out-right.

Needless to say that he - the American - was very impressed and was converted to the 5.56mm round after that.

The advantage of the 7.62mm round is range - the 5.56mm being designed after several studies showed that teh average range that a soldier actually shot out to in action was something like bellow 500 meters. Whereas the 7.62mm round was designed to shoot out to something like 800 meters...

Soldiers just didn't need that kind of range, and there was the weight issue too.

There are rounds (experimented with during the 1970s) which were designed to cause maximum internal damge. These were SABOT rounds much like miniture versions of teh rounds fired by tanks.

The bullet was carried inside a outer sleeve - which was discarded when the projectile left the barrel. But, again, these did the damage by being ultra-high velocity rounds...

There is a technical name for the kind of displacement damage they do - internally - to human beings, but I can't remember it.

Suffice to say that when they enter a human body they create not a narrow straight path r hole through - but the extreme force makes a kind of bubble of displacement many times larger than the size of bullet INSIDE the victim.

I have seen slow motion movies of this - the bullet being shot through a special balistic 'jelly' that acts like tissue and mussle...The results are frieghtening!

[sulky_uk]

Originally posted by ThePENDRAGON@Nov 22 2005, 10:35 PM
lol that's showing your age BB.

When I did my RCB for Sandhurst the army had just switched from the SLR to the SA80 and it was causing havoc. I particularly remember the Guards' hating it as it was too shot to have the butt on the ground when standing on parade.

I also seem to recall that the SA80 can only be fired righthanded -else you got the spent cartridge in your face. I dunno if that got changed in later versions?

PEN

[post=102439]Quoted post[/post]

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no its still only right handed althou for a left handed person (who incidently in nearly all cases uses there left eye) they have started to issue them with susat sights to encourage them to use the right eye and the right hand

[Penfold]

Originally posted by BlueBall@Nov 23 2005, 08:43 AM
True. I fired one a couple of times and remember how accurate it was.

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It also had on helluva kick.

Our school's CCF had the .303 as stock guns - Big Bang and very accurate.

[sulky_uk]

Originally posted by target@Nov 22 2005, 07:59 PM
According to my old man who used this weapon during his time in the army, the L1A1 was routinely modified by troops to provide a full auto capability - apparently it meant removing the end stop on the safety, then you could move it past semi-auto and enter splurg-gun terrority.

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i mentioned that to my dad and he said "i think we also used a chewing gum wrapper as well to do the same job" :blink:

[Ranger]

Originally posted by Blunt@Nov 22 2005, 11:28 PM

Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) Mark 1 -- Introduced in 1906


Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee Enfield Mark 3 -- 1907, different sights
A wartime version for WWI had several mods for ease of manufacture


Rifle, Short, Number 4 Mark 1, Short, Magazine Lee Enfield - 1941
Top shown mounting Bayonet Number 9, bottom blow-up mounts "Pig-Sticker" bayonet

Muzzle velocity  2060 fps  2440 fps  2440 fps

Rate of fire  8 aimed rounds per minute

As one vet, Vince Gilligan, 3rd Battalion Royal Australian Army said:

"... on the Lee Enfield .303 rifle our mob(Australians) used in Korea. The brits used a later version with the pig sticker bayonet. We had the 18" bayonet (blued). One of the rifles I had was made in 1917-1918. It was a very effective weapon. At least if you hit something, it stayed Hit."

And after all, that's the idea.

[post=102454]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

I liked the old 'smelly' - remember endless evenings of stripping and cleaning it in the cadets.

Best thing about the smelly (Short Magazined Lee Enfield) was how good it looked on parade, and the lovely *crack* it made when the butt hit the parade ground!

The Lee Enfield had one of the best bolt action mechanisms...DON'T let anyone tell you that the Mauser was - it wasn't!

The bolt action was so smooth that in WWI the germans initially thought they were up against machine guns - but it was actually rapid fire from the smelly!

Another bolt rifle in British service though was the P14 (originally designed and produced for the US Army but shipped over to the UK to help with the war effort). This was a superb rifle and very accurate and was the preference of some snipers.

You will see this rifle if you have ever watched 'Dad's Army' as it was reissued to reserve and Home Guard units in the second world war.

I think the best homage to the SMLE is that it remained in service in the British army until quite recently - in a modified form of the Mk. IV - as the standard sniping rifle.

As to the ballistics, this round was specifically designed to meet the needs of armies which shot at each other across - generally - larger distances that is the norm in modern warfare. At shorter ranges the higher smaller calibre round is still as or more effective than the larger calibre round.

----

Oh, and PS...

My Dad - late of the 8th Army - personnally preffered his .45 1928 Thompson sub machine gun, the 'Tommy Gun'! (But I think - like Private Pyke - he liked the idea that it made him look like a gangster!)

[suicidal_monkey]

I actually started my post about .50 referring to the round typically used in very high power, long range, sniper rifles such as the .50 version of the AWM. There's also a few ridiculous rifles that use larger rounds (20mm) but they get, how shall I put it, a bit strange...

I reckon you might manage to carry a minigun and the battery, but then yuo also need to carry ammunition...and at the rate those things fire (chopper minigun is what 2000rpm?) you may find yourself out of ammo very quickly! I'm pretty sure you'd find yourself on your back (see bottom of this page even with smaller calibre rounds, unless some clever active recoil thingy like in the rifle linked to above were used... Still looks cool though

[suicidal_monkey]

Originally posted by ThePENDRAGON@Nov 23 2005, 10:27 AM
Our school's CCF had the .303 as stock guns - Big Bang and very accurate.

My old highschool had an armoury of .22 rifles, and there were several .303's which had been modified to fire .22 rounds. They still kicked a lot harder than the standard .22 guns! We also had a very nice old relic in the armoury but they only fired it once and as the school was adjacent to the presidents place the army/guards came round to see what was what... :whistle:

[A Twig]

Now, this I would like to fire!

[sulky_uk]

in iraq this year i was at a shared camp with the americans and when we had a range slot they would have slots either side. So they would let us fire whatever we wanted along as they could have a go of the sa80a2(they thought it was better that the m16a2)

so i got to fire a beretta 92
a m16a2
a saw
a 50 cal machine gun
a barrat light 50

the funny thing was that the rules of the range said no tracers( the reason was that it was an old iraqi has hanger with sand piled in it) , so there we were firing the gpmg with a 200 round belt and a couple of tracers made it ... er in

the firing stoped when we saw the tracers coming back out over our heads (bout 20 ft), collectivly saying shite and then stopping and saying "oh thats why they dont want us to fire tracers" and the fact that the yanks r really lak range safety  compared to us  :blink:

[Penfold]

Originally posted by mono_dna@Nov 22 2005, 10:32 AM

As for whether or not you need to leave the game when you've gained an unlock: No need. You just go to the BFHQ section of the menu and choose your unlock. Next time you choose your class you can also choose your new weapon. That's how I did it. I even think I was in the middle of a game, but I'm not quite sure...

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so I have 518 points but can't choose an unlock.

I go to the BFHQ screen and look at all the pretty guns. by each new one there's a padlock.

how do I choose?


THanks

[Blunt]

Originally posted by sulky_uk@Nov 23 2005, 10:33 PM
in iraq this year i was at a shared camp with the americans and when we had a range slot they would have slots either side. So they would let us fire whatever we wanted along as they could have a go of the sa80a2(they thought it was better that the m16a2)

so i got to fire a beretta 92
a m16a2
a saw
a 50 cal machine gun
a barrat light 50

the funny thing was that the rules of the range said no tracers( the reason was that it was an old iraqi has hanger with sand piled in it) , so there we were firing the gpmg with a 200 round belt and a couple of tracers made it ... er in

the firing stoped when we saw the tracers coming back out over our heads (bout 20 ft), collectivly saying shite and then stopping and saying "oh thats why they dont want us to fire tracers" and the fact that the yanks r really lak range safety compared to us :blink:

[post=102580]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

isn't it funny that everyone who has anything to do with th yanks complains about their safety routines...

I have heard some scary stories about fires and stuff that make a british Firefighter go "woah! WTF?

it seems we have a different ethos....

cue Doorman

[A Twig]

I've fired one of these

I know it's not military or anything, but it is a beautiful gun, so stable and easy to use it almost shoots itself out to 500 yds. Beyond that you do need to shoot properly, but I loved it.

It was on one of these that I joined the half moon club, firing from the standing position!

[Blunt]

my dream