Ninja Freak

[TeaLeaf]

I see your point, I didn't mention you by name in the response, but I felt that you were covered by the section on thread closing anyway.  In any case, I sent it last night, so sorry

TL.

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by TeaLeaf@Dec 10 2005, 09:25 AM
I see your point, I didn't mention you by name in the response, but I felt that you were covered by the section on thread closing anyway. In any case, I sent it last night, so sorry

TL.

[post=104639]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

NP dont worry. I was just trying to cover all the bases.

[TeaLeaf]

A copy fo the final post.  It turned out that whilst I had drafted the repsonse I had not sent it, so I added a bit more.

TL.

Message Forwarded From TeaLeaf

Ninja & Oldbloke

Amazingly, I was so tired last night after the week I have had that I awoke this morning remembering typing the below to you both last night, but not remembering whether or not it was actually ever sent. So, with apologies if this is the second copy, here is my formal response to Ninja's complaint.

As Ninja made the matter public and brought into question the behaviour of two Admins I intend to post the below to the complaint thread on the public forums in 24 hours. If you have any specific comment or feedback please make sure I have it before then.

As you will see, on a technicality the complaint against Oldbloke was supported. However I believe that the far more serious matter is the disgraceful way in which Ninja insisted on continuing to engage in and fan a public flame war. This element of the saga I am extremely disheartened by and do not *ever* want to see happen again in this way.

Ninja, I believe with hindsight you will realise that you over-stepped the mark and then went totally overboard in your public allegations. It would go a long way to repairing some of the damage done if you were to apologise to the two Admins you mentioned in your posts. Whether you do this in public or via PM I will leave to you to decide.

The Admins have been reminded of procedure and are now updating the rules to suit the current community strucutre. This is long overdue. The Admins are also now considering whether or not Ninja's very public outburst requires any further action. In this respect the Admins will contact Ninja within 7 days.

I trust that you find my below comments through and an honest and independent appraisal of the circumstances surrounding Ninja's complaint.

TL.

cc Ninja_Freak, Oldbloke and posted to the Admins forum.


***************************
***************************
****COMPLAINT RESPONSE****
***************************
***************************

On 5th December at 10.29pm I received a complaint from Ninja_Freak about Oldbloke, alledging buse of his authority as an admin on the BF2 server. I have reviewed the following information in reaching my conclusion:

•   Correspondence to me from Ninja_Freak
•   Information posted in the Admin Forums
•   Correspondence from BlueBall
•   Correspondence from Armitage (as requested by Ninja_Freak)
•   Information in three threads posted in the public BF2 section of the dMw forums

*****************************************************
The events are as follows:

4/12 22:02 Oldbloke posted to the Admin section details of a kick and ban from the BF2 server applied to Ninja_Freak Other comments added another Admin at 22:19.
4/12 23:21 Ninja_Freak made an initial post to the forums asking why he had been kicked from the BF2 server.
4/12 23:53 Initial forum thread closed by Oldbloke.
5/12 22:17 Second thread posted by Ninja_Freak.
5/12 23:22 Second thread closed by Oldbloke.
5/12 23:47 Third thread posted by Ninja_Freak.
6/12 00:07 Third thread closed by Oldbloke.
6/12 13:53 Ninja_Freak requested removal of BlueBall’s additional posts (using his Admin powers) to the then closed threads.

*******************************************************

It is clear from the above that after the initial incident on the BF2 server on 4/12 a lot happened when Ninja read Oldbloke’s response on 5/12. In less than 2 hours on 5/12 two new threads were opened, two were closed and I received the formal complaint.

Areas considered:
Potential abuse of Admins powers by Oldbloke
Action by Ninja_Freak

Leading up to the ban:
Ninja_Freak has stated that whilst playing BF2 and he typed swear words into general chat and received an automated Server warning for swearing. He has confirmed his response as "I will not stop swearing you cun$” (using the $ and not the T) but stated that the response was meant to be a joke.
Separate Admin reports have confirmed that Ninja was also swearing over voice comms that same evening.

The Ban:
Oldbloke issued the kick and ban from the BF2 server in response to the typed "I will not stop swearing you cun$” comment.

Findings:

Did Ninja_Freak’s behaviour on the from the BF2 server warrant Admin action?

 

Originally posted by Membership Standards"+-->

QUOTE(Membership Standards")

Language & Behaviour
Members should maintain a professional level of conduct at all times. Please keep your language and behaviour both in the forums and on the servers at that same level. [/b]

Originally posted by Player Standards+-->

QUOTE(Player Standards)

4. Language
All players should hold a professional level of conduct at all time. Please keep your language in the forums and on the server at a professional and mature level. Play as though you are an example for other players and set a good one. New players will often follow examples set by veteran players, good OR bad. [/b]

We all tolerate a degree of variance in 'language' from time to time, but an Admin had already been upset by the degree of swearing exhibited early in the evening to the point of intending to send a PM to Ninja_Freak to ask for some moderation of the language used.  This was superceded by reading Oldbloke’s post to the Admins and the Admin concerned added their comments to the Admin thread.  I would suggest that whilst frustration with the language was already raised by voice comms comments, the ante was upped by use of the 'c' word.  This is offensive to many and was the straw that broke the camel's back.

•   Yes, Ninja_Freak’s reported swearing via voice comms and typed response warranted Admin action.  Reference: Membership and Player Standards.

Was the Admin kick and ban from the BF2 server action appropriate and did it follow Admin Standards?

[TeaLeaf]

I am delaying posting this a bit as Ninja has still not even read the PM I sent to him.

TL.

[TeaLeaf]

He read the message at 13:58hrs today.  He's currently using the PM side of the forum, so I'm kind of wondering if I'm about to get a pasting  :blush:

TL.

[Doorman]

[TeaLeaf]

I feel that Ninja's below response is as close to humble pie as we are likely to get at this stage.  He has seen the point we made and we have avoided destroying him (which we so easily could have done).

We now need to decide what action is any to take.  I will start a separate thread on the matter.

TL.

Originally posted by Ninja_Freak+-->

QUOTE(Ninja_Freak)

Message Forwarded From Ninja_Freak

TL.
Wisdom doesn\'t necessarily come with age. Sometimes age just shows up all by itself.  (Tom Wilson)
Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships. (Michael Jordan)

[TeaLeaf]

An interesting follow up.

TL.

Message Forwarded From Ninja_Freak

Sorry TL did you say that you were going to post the response below publicly? Was it going in the BF2 thread or somewhere else?

I was going to wait for that thread to appear and respond to that if permitted / deemed necessary.

NF

Hi Ninja

No, I was waiting for a response to my PM; I noted that it was read at about 2pm today, so was waiting for you to come back to me to comment, so I haven't posted anything yet as I wanted to wait for your reply.

I can post a variety of different versions for public consumption and that was one of the issues I wanted your opinion on.  Because it has been made so public I need to post something to confirm to members that it has been dealt with and summarising the outcome.  I can either post the whole thing or a one liner saying it's all sorted now (and all versions in between).

I am happy to work with you on this aspect if you like or you can leave it to me.  Whatever we agree to post, I hope that it does not turn into a public slanging match again, the aim is to close the matter, not fuel the dying flames.  

Btw, just FYI I don't know if Armitage was meant to say anything but he said he knew nothing about it when he repleid to my questions.

The other reason I wanted to hear from you was to find out how you felt about my response to the complaint.  I know you're not going to be all 'singing and dancing' about it, but I wanted to know if you felt I gave it a fair crack of the whip.  I feel I've done my best to retain an independent stance on this, but it is always interesting to hear other's perspective.  

Let me know what your thoughts are on the above.

Regards

TL.[/b]

OH.. This is the PM I should respond to..  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

Am I completely satisfied, yes.. Admittedly I was being a bit of a prick but I appreciate it being noted that the rules were not followed to the letter.

I honestly felt relieved when you got involved and felt that you were impartial from the word go.

In addition I agree that the rules do need to be adapted to BF2 as I still maintain that the only warning I received was from the server. I don't necessarily agree that the BF2 warning is the same as a CZ TK kick but none the less I will not argue with your judegement and take it as a collective final decision.

I think that your comments were impartial and that you viewed both sides of the arguement for the best part. The only thing that I would have liked to seen verified was if OB was aware of BB's comments / feelings at the time when he chose to ban me. I personally don't think he was.

I support your discision and that of the community.

NF
[/b]

[Anonymous]

I think that your comments were impartial and that you viewed both sides of the arguement for the best part. The only thing that I would have liked to seen verified was if OB was aware of BB's comments / feelings at the time when he chose to ban me. I personally don't think he was.

NF

[post=104897]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

I struggle to see how OB knowing about his earlier misdemeanor would have helped things. If anything it's my guess that OB would have looked even less favourably on NF had he known just how bad his language had been! As far as I know, OB was not aware of NF verbally swearing until I replied to OBs post stating that NF was banned 17 minutes after OB posted in the admin forum.

I don't see a problem with NF knowing this if he feels he needs to.

[TeaLeaf]

I don't see any need to take it further at the moment - we won;t gain anything by it and he clearly needs some time to cool off - I think we shoudl give him just that.

TL.

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by TeaLeaf@Dec 12 2005, 04:49 PM
I don't see any need to take it further at the moment - we won;t gain anything by it and he clearly needs some time to cool off - I think we shoudl give him just that.

TL.

[post=104903]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

I wasn't meaning take it further. What i was trying to say (rather unclearly) is we should inform NF that OB did NOT know before he banned him. My post was at least 17 mins after the ban. I just thought it might clear up NFs question as he seemed keen to know but if you want to leave it where it is then thats OK too