Is it fair?

[Nefertem]

Originally posted by Padding+May 19 2006, 11:59 AM-->

QUOTE(Padding @ May 19 2006, 11:59 AM)

Well, yes and no. RG1 is missing members for the raid, the ones that are online gets a spot, so that does work very good.
DKP wise they get ahead of the rest, yes, but they also give their time and effort the raid and therefore its natural that their DKP is higher.

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Originally posted by Marduk@May 19 2006, 12:14 PM
he spends the extra time and efford in an extra raid, wich sometimes people get invited to, yes you could see that as lucky, but we do need the person we dont do it to pick on others ...

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[TeaLeaf]

Agreed with much of what Bastet said.

I'm sorry folks, I think your moaning about nothing and totally missing the point.  Stop focusing on *your* position in *your* loot queue and *your* loss.  Start focusing on *your* raid group success.  A better equipped raid goes further faster meanign you will get more loot, so please cheer next time you see a raid member get some loot that improves their equipment.

RG2 members will *always* be able to help out RG1 if RG1 is short.  That's the system.  If you're worried about it then join the RG1 raid when the invites go out.  

What you are complainign about is a system where someone who helps out RG1 is rewarded with DKP.  Is that wrong?  Or are you more worried that *you* were not the one rewarded?  Take DKP away from an RG2 member in an RG1 raid and you then split the squads, develop a two tier Guild and piss people off - and that is not going to happen.

Stop worrying about other people for goodness sake.  Focus on your own joib.  We've had some right good moaners recently, some of whom barely know how to play their class - there are clearly more important things to use your time on - like learning how to play that class!

If you think that issuing an invite to all RG2 class members to join the RG1 raid is unfair then I'm sorry, but that comes with the territory.  Learn to type and don;t bemoan someone a place in a raid when they were their to answeer a call for help and you were not.  Get in earlier to be there for the invites, or join the queue and deal with it, or stop whining.


TL.

[mirianna]

I have to agree with Bastet too..
I don't see why ppl worry that much about DKP..
what will come will come.. (cept maybe those Stormrage pants:))

and btw I all for resetting the DKP.. seeing as I'm on the negative side:)

[Neff]

I'm sorry folks, I think your moaning about nothing and totally missing the point. Stop focusing on *your* position in *your* loot queue and *your* loss. Start focusing on *your* raid group success. A better equipped raid goes further faster meanign you will get more loot, so please cheer next time you see a raid member get some loot that improves their equipment.

/hail !

Whats the big deal with getting something first? You will get it sometime, you may not have it the first time, but if you raid you will get it the 2nd/3d/4th etc etc  time it drops. Yeah it sux waiting for an item that dropepd when you didnt get it , then waiting for it for a longer time (Toep , my gloves f.ex )  

It'l clear up, officers always fix stuff

[Gorion]

100% agreement with bastet and tea..

stop moaning and start raiding!

[Bob]

Originally posted by Gorion@May 19 2006, 01:19 PM
100% agreement with bastet and tea..

stop moaning and start raiding!

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Agree!
/signed

[Nefrion]

I really do hope you know why we kept the posts concerning this issue on the more private NG forum after all these posts. There you are able to express your opinions and discuss them without being called whiners and told to shut up!

Nefrion out!

[Knabbel]

We all are familiar with the fact of loot passing by in front of our nosses......or did we all get our T0 with the first roll? How many UBRS, BRD etc runs did YOU do to obtain that 1 piece of gear? As far as I know....effort is more chance on getting item(s) but not chanceless.......  That goes for all instances from lvl 1 to BWL.  No help from RG2 could mean no run at all.....no help from RG1 could mean no run at all....like mentioned before the item will fall eventually just not as fast as you hope.

And if I wanted to have Tier 1 fast I wouldn't join a learning raid group....which I find (here it comes) FUN....... The whole learning curve. Getting more times into an instances is also good for your reputation.....

Stop TANGOing get in line and a big thanks to those who make raiding possible.


Thank you!

Daedalus.

PS: And yes I did join BWL 2 times..........great instance (I'm RG2)

[Sebas]

Originally posted by Nefrion@May 19 2006, 02:38 PM
I really do hope you know why we kept the posts concerning this issue on the more private NG forum after all these posts. There you are able to express your opinions and discuss them without being called whiners and told to shut up!

Nefrion out!

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Maybe you see it that way, TL and Bastet just gave their opinion about this, just like everybody else. They wont do anything if you react on them in a decent manner.

Well maybe the systems isnt flawless, but its something you would have to deal with. The organising of a guild takes a ---- load of work and this flaw aint to bad in my eyes, only their number increases a little bit more than yours. Develop a team spirit, we gotta work together as a team and not as 40 individuals, that aint working.

[Umbra]

If people are just having a rant and making an opinion known then, is that not what forums are for?

But it changes if you expect an instant change of a complicated system.

The former is voicing your ideas/problems, which is ok as then it can be taken into account at a later date, the latter is saying it's wrong now and I want to know when it'll be changed (in your favour).

1) It may seem unfair that someone got into a raid you didn't/couldn't but what it comes down to is RG1 needed people (maybe only 1), RG2 is perfect to fill that gap, would you rather we went in undermanned?

2) You can't penalise someone who came along to help, after all, they spent the time and effort in there as well. Even if you didn't get the opportunity to go, that's like asking for a salary from a company because you want to work even if they employ someone else

3) RG2 is nearly farming MC now too so it won't be long until you get  said item, and besides, once you get to BWL you won't much care

4) it's quite possible that said raider can get an item from BWL, and if you look at item costs, you'll notice they're huge from that instance, one item and they'll be bottom of the list

5 and last) the focus should be on improving overall raid group, as long as said person doesn't use their BWL dkp in MC ahead of others and then leave/move to RG1 then it benefits you as well. Cameraderie people! there is no 'I' in team, or somesuch waffle (mmm, waffles)

[Nefertem]

Nefrion this subject is not a NG-issue.. It is a subject that conecerns the entire guild, which, has Gorion said, is a family.. There is no need to hide a discussion from the majority of the guild.. We discuss with each other and we support each other..

and as Sebas said while I was writing, what the other people such as TL and bastet wrote is their 2 cents.

[lunares]

Originally posted by Nefrion@May 19 2006, 01:38 PM
I really do hope you know why we kept the posts concerning this issue on the more private NG forum after all these posts. There you are able to express your opinions and discuss them without being called whiners and told to shut up!

Nefrion out!

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Here are my 2 cents and represent my opinion only.
You say you should shut up. I dont agree on that you should discuss it. But you are afraid to loose your first spot in dkp as far is understood it right (cause some ppl in BWL get more cause of the boss kills there).  RG2 gets MC loot 3-4 times as fast as RG1. Which means BWL is not that far of. And still your not satisfied cause some ppl get a bit more dkp cause the got in the BWL raid?
And when RG1 has a MC run a few of you get switched in so prevent needless DE in. So even if that RG2 guy/girl gets an item first then you get it the 2nd time it drops and the raid will profit from it either way. And yes its not fun to see loot go to another person if you wanted it. Still it will drop again. And also in BWl some set items drop a lot (mage anyone) which will mean a RG 2 member will get it eventually. That means he gets about 200 dkp from his account. And thats much if you look at the MC/onyxia dkp costs.

Lunares

[Nefrion]

If it is for the team spirit and not for the loot then please remove DKP for RG2 in RG1's BWL!!

then you will only recruit people who are team players and not the loot-freaks cuz they dont want to join as they get no DKP for it.

problem solved...

Have a good weekend guys

[Asmoden]

First off i would like to say that being as i postet the major post (said a lot of stuff anyways) i felt all of those "whining" and "stop it" comments were directed at me. It was not a very nice feeling and i actualy got a little sad that not even one person said anything about how my suggestions was or anything.
I did not make my post to whine, but to tell people what it is we think that could be improved. Officers cant sit and do everything, they need the help of the members, and i thought that was what i was doing. Instead "I" get flamed and told to shut up and get my act together... I had hoped for a debate, and maby something from the officers about what ideas they had, but that was aparently not what people wanted.. I do hope you will take into consideration that there are people behind the posts, and we have feelings...I was only trying to help..

Originally posted by TeaLeaf@May 19 2006, 12:50 PM
I'm sorry folks, I think your moaning about nothing and totally missing the point. Stop focusing on *your* position in *your* loot queue and *your* loss. Start focusing on *your* raid group success. A better equipped raid goes further faster meanign you will get more loot, so please cheer next time you see a raid member get some loot that improves their equipment.

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The succes of a raid group (in my humble opinion) is getting some gear to every person, and getting it devided. Having 5 people in a raid getting good gear, while the others have to wait, also means that we will have to wait that time before we can move on. 1 priest with 5 set items wont help the raid as much as 5 priests with 1 each.. i should think.
That was the reson to my consern, and my reson to try and help. Wont happen again, sorry.

[Zabard]

Originally posted by Nefrion@May 19 2006, 02:58 PM
If it is for the team spirit and not for the loot then please remove DKP for RG2 in RG1's BWL!!

then you will only recruit people who are team players and not the loot-freaks cuz they dont want to join as they get no DKP for it.

problem solved...

Have a good weekend guys

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So this means we can remove DKP all-together and just DE everything and give it to the homless people, right?  

Jemeny