Is it fair?

[Bastet]

Originally posted by Asmoden@May 19 2006, 03:03 PM
Officers cant sit and do everything, they need the help of the members, and i thought that was what i was doing. Instead "I" get flamed and told to shut up and get my act together... I had hoped for a debate, and maby something from the officers about what ideas they had, but that was aparently not what people wanted.. I do hope you will take into consideration that there are people behind the posts, and we have feelings...I was only trying to help..

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Looking back on my own post, i admit i was a bit harsh, but the last few days it seams for me personaly that whatever the officers do there is always something else that ppl start complaining about what also isnt up to spec, we bust our chops to get the guild running smoothly, and keep it running smoothly, and its personaly quite infuryiating to find a post directed at officers point us at some flaw in our systems. After a few days i tend to get a bit blunt and pissed at it, i be sorry for that.

[Siffredi]

People get stressed and feelings fly high, that is understandeble... I think alot of this subject is based on slightly misunderstood posts, and this would be much easier to sort out on a meeting on TS... This usually sorts out most of the problems, because its a active debate, and people have to make account for thier opinions. So perhaps those who needs this clarified should set up a meeting on TS with some officers?

And all remember - We play to have fun, and ocationally we pick up a Phat loot or two...

[Menedil]

hmmmmmmmmm.... when i started raiding with SOG/Danu (before actually joining) back in... july? last year, we were still wiping at magmadar iirc. possibly even lucifron.

our first ragnaros kill was nearly six months later, 6th of january 2006.

RG2 have been raiding for what... two months? and youre going to cash in on some hot ragnaros love very soon. it took me the best part of 7 months to get a full nightslayer set, and within 2 months i see most rg2 rogues already have quite a few NS pieces and epic weapons!

dont worry about getting your loot, it will come, maybe you wont get it the next time, but it is just a matter of time, and you sure as hell wont have to  wait for as long as most of RG1 had to

concerning dkp hoarding for one particular item - totally not worth it. fyi with level 1 stupid trogg daggers my backstabs did something like 75% of the dmg that perditions blade did.

[Nefrion]

These things should be debated. And it is not directed at officers. They do a great job!

IMO these things just have to be debated to correct flaws in the system.

When were the last time you learned anything from a person who had the same opinion as you had?

[Nefertem]

Thats what this thread is here for Nef  

[ShadowElf]

hmm, this is quite interesting.
- for now I see some RG2 members being mad because of the DKP system we have.
- The officers have problem telling them what thay are working on.

looks like you need to make some public guild forum showing you the officer's progress with stuff.

whould be great "maybe." I dont know, its just my thinking.  :frusty:



become friends with your guild m8ts (class) and pass on stuff.
that what many of us did made a whole new friendly guild.

I still whine and do things that makes officers "mad" :narnar:

[Knabbel]

If we progress fast enough this will soon be over due to BWL starting for RG2 to.........

[Padding]

There is 1 major thing people need to realise here.

If you class loot drops and you dont get it, you WILL get it next time or the next time

DONT be sad that you didnt get it, be HAPPY that you'll get it next time. You should be more sad if loot for another class dropped.

thats a common misunderstanding

[Sinap]

I agree with Menedil. A lot of people are complaining about losing out on an item which they will probably get next week. I remember wiping endlessly on MC bosses, not as early on as some people, but still wiped on a lot of bosses there, and also attended raids to BWL, where all we got we're 10g + repair bills each night and no loot and hardly any dkp (like, 10dkp!). And people are complaining about who gets the loot fastest....

[Torir]

Personally, I've passed on items to other priests so they can get a particular set bonus, I've also whispered for an item that was otherwise going to be disenchanted. If you check the current RG1 priest dkp it ranges from between 1500 - 3000, this is not because we're saving for a particular item, this is because priest loot varely rarely drops for RG1. I don't complain, and I've even offered to pass on a few more pieces.

Originally posted by Asmoden
The succes of a raid group (in my humble opinion) is getting some gear to every person, and getting it devided.

I agree with this, which is why I've passed/have offered to pass on items that have dropped in the past. For example, I've passed on Bindings of Transcendence a few times, and possibly also the Belt of Transcendence, so that people are able to get their 3 trans set bonus, a big help to the raid. The bindings would have been an upgrade for me, since I'm still wearing blue bracers, but a couple of stats, in my opinion, just cannot be compared to 15% mana regeneration while casting for a priest...

If people in other classes were able to do the same, would this thread be here? That's my 2c on the situation, and could possibly be something to think about

[Gorion]

ppl.. in the end this is all bullcrap..

if you paticipate in a BWL then you will get BWL Dkp becuae you put an effort/money/time into BWL

now if its RG1 or 2.. who bloody cares?

so this guy went to bwl, earned 88dkp and managed to get this and that item before you did... Big deal.. i have waited nearly a year for the bindings of the windseeker to drop for me, and then both of them drop for RG2... just imagine how i felt.. but i dont give a hot danm.. ille get them in due time neways

[JanuZ]

Originally posted by Nefrion@May 19 2006, 02:58 PM
If it is for the team spirit and not for the loot then please remove DKP for RG2 in RG1's BWL!!

then you will only recruit people who are team players and not the loot-freaks cuz they dont want to join as they get no DKP for it.

Let me see people get DKP for spending there time raiding like people get money for spending there time working, now some RG2 members spend some overtime to help the guild but you think he shoulnd't get paid overtime since it will give him more then you get for not doing the overtime?

The point of the DKP system is to spread the Loot in a way that it benefits the guild the most, now if one defender is more likly to help RG1 then another defender he should be getting better loot then other defenders since he not only helps other defenders get loot by helping them in RG2 but he is also of more use to RG1 when he helps there. Every defender has the same chance of getting into RG1 BWL raids since there is an equal amount of guardians in all classes and equal amount of defenders in all classes.

And seriously is there a single RG2 member that doens't have 3MC pieces? i know that after what less then 2months of raiding? I had to wait 2months for my first MC item, and another another 2months to get upto 3pieces.

And a quick question to everyone how often do you look or think about what loot you have on your character? My guess is that you do it almost never ingame unless someone else brings it up or when you see a possible upgrade. I think its only when you are offline and thinking about how you can improve or you are dreaming over possible loot that drops of a far of boss. One thing i am at least pretty sure of is that you aren't thinking OMG if only i had gotten that weapon instead of the other person we might have gotten the boss down from 28% to 0% or when in Battlegrounds you don't think if only i had this nice head piece we would have won the game, you think why can't people work together and we would win this.
Also what is your first thought after killing a boss for the first time? is it "i wonder what loot he dropped" or is it "OMG WE FINALLY DID IT, THAT WAS AMAZING. GREAT JOB PEOPLE"

Lastly people stop thinking about the DKP system and complaining about it. You will get items sooner or later, there will be new items that replace old and don't think about if you get it today before someone else or you get it next week. If the complaints about the DKP system and loot system don't stop i would advice the officers to make the DKP site only accessible to them. People might complain for a short time but the only reason it is visible to players is so that you know you will get the item or not when it drops and you can be sure the officers aren't cheating the item distribution. I actually think it would help with the morale if it wasn't visible since people would whisper for items they want instead of thinking i want that but i will wait for the other thing i want first.

[Sinap]

/signed Teni

[Vargen]

Originally posted by Drazila@May 19 2006, 09:21 PM
Lastly people stop thinking about the DKP system and complaining about it. You will get items sooner or later, there will be new items that replace old and don't think about if you get it today before someone else or you get it next week. If the complaints about the DKP system and loot system don't stop i would advice the officers to make the DKP site only accessible to them. People might complain for a short time but the only reason it is visible to players is so that you know you will get the item or not when it drops and you can be sure the officers aren't cheating the item distribution. I actually think it would help with the morale if it wasn't visible since people would whisper for items they want instead of thinking i want that but i will wait for the other thing i want first.

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I won't quote the entire post, but this is exactly the point. Loot IS NOT IMPORTANT.
Sure I might be somewhat obsessed with a certain item myself, at times, but in the end of the day the team is what is important.
At the moment I belive RG2 have missed out on this, because they did not spend a month trying to get passed the imps in MC, they did not spend 6 months working on relatively unknown tactics to get to Ragnaros. Take one look at my loot history, and look carefully on the dates; that is the normal rate of getting your Tier 1 set.

And as a side note, there is a new DKP site still not implemented and if this fighting and conflicts due to DKP continue, we may well keep it a officers only site. We may well decide to zero out all DKP or hang on, maybe we would pretend to have one and do loot council. DKP is a queue system that rewards according to time spent and effort put in, not to who is the biggest... well you get the picture.

[Neff]

really do hope you know why we kept the posts concerning this issue on the more private NG forum after all these posts. There you are able to express your opinions and discuss them without being called whiners and told to shut up!

Oh my god, how narrow-minded that was, im speachless. The officers havent done much else than help. Remember! They have rl's too you know, when you take up a spot as an officer your required to do alot more than just raid, you plan & discuss and you recruit.
If it would'nt have been for the officers, would we have been on the last boss in BWL? in such short time? We're in Phase 2 ffs, even with our attendance problems.

You should be happy that you were the ones that "got to raid with us" im saying that with the risk of sounding cocky, but if the loot is such a big deal to you then you shouold be happy for getting free epix ein "ez mode"

I see it as an privelege to raid with sog, and you should too.


(this whole post being written with the risk of getting called an ass-kisser)

Originally posted by Vargen@May 19 2006, 09:41 PM
I won't quote the entire post, but this is exactly the point. Loot IS NOT IMPORTANT.

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Stormrage leggings :whistle: