Here we go again.

[Zabard]

Well, first off, Siff, this is not about you, and I think you know this.
 
Last night, it happened again, and like last time (Ref. this thread) it was me who got the short end of the stick. An item was given to a hunter instead of a warrior/rogue first, that has clearly more use of it (in this case the Brutality Blade, last it was the Vis'kag the Bloodletter). I didn't want to make a fuzz about it last time, but someone else did it, as they were clearly even more angered about it than me, even tho it was me who "lost the loot". This time, however I'm too angry, too disapointed, too fed up to keep my mouth shut.
 
We had a lengthy discussion last about people using common sense and such. This clearly, as I said it wouldn't, doesn't work. It might well work fine for RG1, but as in many other matters, RG1 and 2 are not the same in many ways. This is, like I think TL mentioned last, about thinking of the impact it has on others, and of others could have better use of an item. I totally agree with TL on this, and this is how I would do it too, but not all people are alike. Either people don't care, don't think about it, or simply forget about it, and all of these scenarios leads to the same thing: Frustration for others.
 
I'm sorry for blowing off some steam at you last night, Siff, this was not your fault, but the insident with the Bloodfang Pants was just the icing on the cake that I didn't need. I was pretty worked up and most of all wanted to throw my pc out the window when the Brutality Blade was given to a hunter, but I didn't want to abandon the rest of you because of my "petty" frustrations, and kept on going. Thanks to the other rogues for your words of comfort. It's quite clear they were as surprised as me when we got the word that there no longer was any priority on some of the loot.
 
Anyway, I didn't write this note last night, cause I didn't want to write something that I would regret later. I however feel more or less the same, the difference being that last night you could have thrown in some curse words here and there.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't trust people to have this so called common sense in RG2, and so far I've been proven right. This clearly works wonders for RG1, but I think you guys have a much "closer" connection and, again, communicate a lot more.
 
A solution to this must be put in place, either change it back to priority, or we have to find a way to help people find their common sense. If not, you can consider this my resignation from RG2.

[Umbra]

Ouch, I wasn't there last night but *sympathies to you* and please don't leave.

Has anyone considered the possibility that someone may whisper and simply not know if a class has whispered that might get better use? Don't know specifics, but was it clear to the hunter in question that you were 'really really' after the blade? After all it could be that it was a 'I really want it but I wouldn't take it off a rogue' thing. If not then as you say common sense is low.

If it makes you feel any better it doesn't always work wonders in RG1 (I've done it myself without paying attention) but it does seem to  work better. Once people start appreciating other classes it makes things better. But don't distrust the whole of rg2 simply because of a couple of people who either don't know any better or won't.

As an aside, a couple of times I've /w for something and got a reply from ML (would you mind if a got it m8?) I didn't mind at all I jsut didn't know. TBH I'd rather there was some sort of priority check since otherwise, each person who wants an item has to find out who else wants it first.

[Deadlyspirit]

I have to say that I understand you big time.
 
Have had the same kind of thought lately. Just for RG1. Lets take the 2 items from BWL http://www.thottbot.com/?i=51928 and http://www.thottbot.com/?i=51923
 
I have to say I woud have a really hard time inside my self if I see a priest take those items in front of a mage / lock. I do know that those are not class specefic items. But how much do a priest need the dmg compared to a mage / lock ?
 
So all in all ppl shoud maybe think abit more, when they whisper for a item.

[Knabbel]

I can imagine what you mean Zabard (aka Jemeny)....
 
I'm not gonna judge what is wrong or right here but I think it was about the Brutality Blade right?
 
I looked it up and the stat do show me a nice rogue weapon, and even a dps warrior. I don't mind the dkp sort out the loot but the common sense would be a rogue, dps tank, rest. Same happend to me with the spinal reaper axe...very nice dps for 2h ....lost it to a hunter as well.....
 
Hunters can use it that's true, but I would like to see how many times they use it, cause most of the time they want to range attack and that doesn't go allong together with melee weapons.  Hunter do range attacks and true the agility is nice tbh but there are similair weapons for that I think. Seeing a hunter running around with a 2h axe would mean he has no arrows or bullets anymore.
 
I share the feeling about the common sence thing here as this is, to my opinion, rogue/dps tank prior to rest.

[Padding]

We had a lengthy discussion last about people using common sense and such. This clearly, as I said it wouldn't, doesn't work. It might well work fine for RG1, but as in many other matters, RG1 and 2 are not the same in many ways. This is, like I think TL mentioned last, about thinking of the impact it has on others, and of others could have better use of an item. I totally agree with TL on this, and this is how I would do it too, but not all people are alike. Either people don't care, don't think about it, or simply forget about it, and all of these scenarios leads to the same thing: Frustration for others.

Im a bit confused here? How does the hunter know that a Rogue also whispered? People should whisper for what they want. Maybe the hunter could've whispered -low prio- but its up to the ML and Raid Group rules to decide where the item goes
 

TBH I'd rather there was some sort of priority check since otherwise, each person who wants an item has to find out who else wants it first

Just a comment on loot priority. Its a huge work to keep updated on the loot priority and ML's might not even share the same ideas. I would definately recommend we DONT do that

[DonnieKingo]

For the record - the hunter in question is me.
 
I am getting very VERY tired hunters always have to beg for new gear. The only things that hunters can roll for - without finding compains on the forum the day after - is hunter specific loot or bows/crossbows.
Well bows/crossbow im not really sure of - since someone always say "You can get way better weapons later on in the game..."
 
I rolled for the brutality blade because of the following reasons :
 
1. It has AGI - and if you dont know it - hunters need AGI just like rogues.
2. It has "Chance to crit" - and hunters, like rogues, can use chance to crit.
3. It is a 1h weapon - meaning i can get yet another weapon with AGI/Crit for added benefit.
 
I know rogues need the same things - but i simple cannot understand why hunters are not allowed to roll for things like this - or why we always has to be the last to get it!
 
It is very annoying that people feel that way - especially being a hunter that - like everyone else - would like to upgrade their old items!
 
Thats my reasons and thats why rolled for it - so now you know.
 
DonnieKingo!!!

[Zabard]

Im a bit confused here? How does the hunter know that a Rogue also whispered? People should whisper for what they want. Maybe the hunter could've whispered -low prio- but its up to the ML and Raid Group rules to decide where the item goes

This is just what I said myself last time we discussed this. The answer was that people should show consideration and whisper that they would pass to such and such class, but in your eager for something u'd like, this is easy to forget.
 

Just a comment on loot priority. Its a huge work to keep updated on the loot priority and ML's might not even share the same ideas. I would definately recommend we DONT do that

I don't see this as something very hard to do, as some items are clearly better suited for some classes than others. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the brutality blade would benefit a dps warrior/rogue better than a hunter, and that a bow/gun would benefit a hunter better than as a "trinket" for another class to get some extra str/dex/whatever.

[noevra]

i think the dkp system as it is is good.
If a hunter wants to "waist" his dkp on the brutalty swort he sould be allowed to do so.

I ALSO think you have a point in using commen sens that a hunter sould know that a brutalty blade it probely better for a rogeu - warrior in the raid. So he sould check/ask if anny rogue ore warrior wants it. and than pass and wait till it drops the next time and a rogue dosnt want it. But this is still persenole. Some players in rg1/2 want loot because of the loot. Ore they make a mistake (did that once on a druid bracers _dooh_) of not knowing the item is probely better for a difrent class.

To set up a Loot priority is not the way to go. If blizzard intented for loot to be for 1 class only it would be stated so on the item itself.
I know it is some times frustrating that loot go's to a class you think is not the right class for the item, but if the persone realy wants it its the same way around.

This discusion is placed on a 1000 forms and a 1000 minds disagree ore agree on the subject, but the thing is that it will never realy be solved simply because there is no real rull

[Zabard]

Donnie, of course hunters would want this item. Perhaps you and I are different here, I would not whisper for a bow/gun without without saying that i would pass it to a hunter if they want it. Remember that just like a bow/gun is to a hunter, a melee weapon is way more important to a melee character than a "trinket" as I call it is to another class. To you, a brutality blade is more of an item to hold extra stats/buffs, to me it's more or less what defines my character. This is where the famous common sense comes in.

[Padding]

I don't see this as something very hard to do, as some items are clearly better suited for some classes than others. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the brutality blade would benefit a dps warrior/rogue better than a hunter, and that a bow/gun would benefit a hunter better than as a "trinket" for another class to get some extra str/dex/whatever.

TRUST ME. Its really difficult with a LOT of items. Maybe this one is fairly easy (from your point of view) but in BWL there is a LOT of items that can be questioned
 
I'd like to think that guild spirit > loot, but unfortunately thats not always the case. If the Marshals (RG2) wants to make loot priority, thats fine. Im just saying that one persons loot priority, is not the next person. And it WILL create problems also

[Zabard]

All nice and well, Padding, but some items are obvious enough that it would be real easy. We used to have a priority on the brutality blade before, don't tell me it would be difficult to have it again.

[noevra]

we never had priority on the brutalty sword.
i lost it to a hunter 2s before i got mine.
 
(mebay that's 2 far back though, it whas stil when rg1 whas doing mc and we didnt clear it all the way.... good old time:cheers: )

[Knabbel]

To you, a brutality blade is more of an item to hold extra stats/buffs, to me it's more or less what defines my character. This is where the famous common sense comes in.

This is what I feel to......it suits the rogue better...

[DonnieKingo]

Im very sorry that you feel that way - but i dont think it is as clearly as that.
 
Should i pass this blade for every warrior/rogue that wants it? How about if the warrior/rouge wants to use it as a secondary weapon or backup-weapon?
 
How are the lootmaster to know that? I cant whisper the lootmaster that "i want this item, but ill pass to a rogue/warrior if it is for their primary weapon, but if they want it for a backup-weapon/secondary ill grab it".

There is now way the LM would pass on that question to the warrior/rogue that whispered.

[Neff]

Well, not slagging you here donnie, but a rogue benefits from agi,crit AND the most valuable part on it, the dmg on the sword.
 
Just make it as a "thumb" rule that you whisper with "~if not a more "viable" class wants it".
 
 
But the spinal reaper? haha, sorry for laughing, but i'd feel stupid for running aorund with a wep. with that awesome pvp procc and dmg