Delidding the i7 8700K

[Chaosphere]

Hi all, I thought I'd share some of my experiences 'delidding' my new CPU. First of all, some basics -

Think of a CPU as 3 parts for this exercise. First is the CPU 'die'. This is the clever bit that does all of the work. Second is the integrated heat spreader, or IHS. This is simply a piece of metal that takes heat from the die and transfers it to your cooler. It also serves to protect the die. The third bit is between the two - thermal paste. We all put thermal paste on coolers when we install them, and the inside of your CPU is no different. Intel puts thermal paste BETWEEN the die and the IHS to help with heat transfer.

CPU die --> thermal paste --> IHS --> cooler.

Sadly, intel have moved to using cheap and nasty thermal paste inside of their CPUs. This paste is thermally inefficient. It is bad at its job, but saves intel £££.

Delidding is the process of cleaning out this rubbish thermal paste and replacing it with higher quality stuff, the idea being that this will IMPROVE heat transfer from CPU die to IHS, and lower the working temperatures of the CPU.

Why? Good question. If you leave your computer on 'Auto', never venturing into the scary world of the BIOS, you do NOT need to do this to your CPU. It is NOT without risk, and a CPU left on default settings out of the box will (in most cases*) run at perfectly acceptable temperatures.

If however, like me, you are addicted to overclocking and want to see your CPU running at higher speeds with lower temperatures, then delidding starts to offer some serious benefits. Another side note, most CPUs do NOT need to be overclocked. The benefits are minimal in most cases. This is something to do FOR FUN, if it floats your boat. There is little reason to do any of this stuff if it does not interest you.



*The 4770K (the first CPU I delidded many years ago) was notorious for running hot. My copy of this CPU would thermal throttle (reduce its working speed to protect against damage) right out of the box with NO increase in speed or voltage (i.e. NOT overclocked). This is a rare case, as most CPUs will quite happily run at normal settings without throttling (the i9 in the new Macbook Pro being another exception, but that's a different conversation).



Now time for a disclaimer. Delidding throws your warranty right out of the window, and CAN DESTROY your CPU. Do NOT attempt this after reading just this story. If you are interested, do some more research.

With that out of the way, let me talk you through the story of my delid, with pictures

My new CPU, the 8086K (simply a limited anniversary run of the 8700K) arrived about a week ago. Like any real nerd, I went right into the BIOS to see what could be done. These chips come from the factory with a base clock of 4.0Ghz, and a turbo of 4.3Ghz on all cores. I'm not going to go into the numbers too much, as this is about delidding and not overclocking, but suffice to say higher numbers are 'better'.

To run at 4.3Ghz, the CPU required 1.15V. Temperatures were more than acceptable, well below the 90+ degrees 'danger zone' (where the CPU will start to slow itself down to reduce temperatures and protect itself).
By increasing the voltage delivery to the CPU, I had it running at 5.0Ghz on all cores, with a voltage of 1.3. This was all well and good, until I fired up prime95 (a stability tester that puts a 100% load on the CPU - i.e. produces the most heat possible). The CPU hit 99 degrees within 10 minutes, throttling down to 4Ghz to lower temps.

I'll note here that my CPU was being cooled with a Corsair all-in-one liquid cooler, the H100i Pro. This is up there with the best cooling you can get for your CPU without building your own watercooling loop (which is considerably more expensive). The cooler is mounted as an exhaust in my case, which will add 5-10 degrees to things, but I was not willing to change this for various reasons (many of them aesthetic).

Now, I didn't buy a 'K' series processor to leave it on default clocks. I want that 5Ghz! I was already cooling as best as I could (see the paragraph above), and the next step for me was looking at another delid. This is the second time I have done this (my old 4770K being the first). On to the pictures!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4601[/ATTACH]

The above shows the CPU, cleaned, sitting in its socket in the motherboard. The square peice of metal you are looking at is the IHS. This is what we want to remove with delidding. Normally, this is what the CPU cooler is attached to.

Now, 5 years ago when I did this with the 4770K, I clamped the CPU in a vice and hit it with a hammer to remove the IHS. No, seriously. These days, as more and more people / nerds have resorted to taking these drastic measures to improve thermal transfer within the CPU there are now specific tools for the job. I used the Der8auer Delid Mate 2, a device that essentially replaces the vice and hammer.

The CPU comes out of the motherboard, and sits in the device like so -

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4602[/ATTACH]

The vice part of the delidder is attached, and turned with the allen key -

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4603[/ATTACH]

As you turn the key, pressure is applied to only the IHS, with the rest of the CPU being held still. Eventually enough pressure is applied and 'pop', the glue holding the IHS to the PCB is broken. The IHS is now loose from the CPU. The 2 picture below shows the IHS separate from the CPU, and what we find underneath it!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4604[/ATTACH]

The black gunk is the glue that we just ripped apart using the delidding tool. The grey stuff is Intel's awful thermal paste. The left shows the PCB and (under the paste) the CPU die. CPU dies are delicate, and can be ruined if damaged. This is the bit you have to be gentle with. After a good clean with 99.9% isopropyl alcohol*, we are left with a clean IHS and a clean CPU die -

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4605[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4606[/ATTACH]

*I used 99.9% isopropyl alcohol to clean the CPU die and IHS, as this evaporates within a few seconds and does not leave behind any electrically conductive waste or other residue. It is simply the only thing to clean sensitive electronics with.

Next, we need to replace Intel's rubbish thermal paste with some better stuff. Most people who delid their CPUs use a liquid metal based paste. This has the advantage of being VERY good at transferring heat. It has the disadvantage of being electrically conductive. If this stuff gets on your motherboard, it WILL cause electrical short circuits and potentially kill your PC. For this reason, I ONLY use it between CPU die and IHS. I do not put this stuff anywhere else in my build.

This picture shows a blob of liquid metal before spreading. You don't need much, it goes a long way -

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4608[/ATTACH]

Using a cotton bud, the liquid metal is spread over the die until it looks something like this -

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4611[/ATTACH]

With that done, it's time to reattach the IHS to the CPU. Hopefully, the liquid metal will prove much more efficient at transferring heat from die to IHS than Intel's thermal paste!

To reattach the IHS, I used heat resistant thermal silicon. You don't actually have to attach the IHS at all, the pressure from the CPU cooler (the H100i in my case) will keep it in place. However, reattaching it ensures that no liquid metal will 'leak' from the CPU and onto the motherboard. As I explained above, this would be bad! That said, I run my 4770K without reattaching the IHS for 5 years, and it is still alive and kicking.

I didn't get a picture of this with the 8086K, but the one below shows the 4770K with the silicon in place, ready to have the IHS reattached (I redid the job on the 4770K at the same time, because why not?!). The process was identical for the 8086K.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4609[/ATTACH]

With the silicon in place, the IHS is placed on top (with the help of the tool's spacing device, you know it is going on in the right place). This is then clamped and left for 30 minutes to dry -

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4610[/ATTACH]

With the CPU resealed, it goes back in the motherboard and we apply NORMAL thermal paste (i.e. NOT liquid metal) to the top of the IHS. The corsair H100i is reattached, and the job is complete!

Results!

First of all, at default speeds and voltages. Well, no significant difference. I played a few hours of Overwatch, and the CPU sat at around 50-55 degrees throughout. This is only about 5 degrees cooler than before, showing that there is NO need to do this if you plan on leaving your PC at default settings.

What about that 5Ghz run? Before, the CPU hit 99 degrees and slowed itself down. Now, after the delid, I let it run prime95 for half an hour (before I was dragged off to the gym), and the highest temperature was 81 degrees.  

That is at LEAST an 18 degree improvement! I don't know exactly how hot the CPU would have got to before, as it stopped itself from going above 99 degrees with throttling. I can now run the CPU at 5Ghz, and temperatures remain out of that 'danger zone'. I even tried a 5.2Ghz run with 1.35V, which was also below 90 degrees (85 max), although that will require a bit more testing to confirm stability.



So there you have it. Lower temperatures and higher clock speeds with no throttling. I'll now spend the next few days tinkering with the CPU to see how fast I can get it, just for the fun of it. Congrats if you read all of that, hope it was interesting! Remember, stuff like this can destroy your CPU if you mess it up. It is only something to do if you are willing to accept those risks. No one NEEDS to do this, but for us Overclocking addicts it can be a lot of fun!

[Sneakytiger]

Worth doing with a 6700k?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chaosphere]

If you have to ask, the answer is probably no.

As I said above, it is only 'worth' doing if you are interested in Overclocking and the idea of taking apart your CPU appeals to you. If not, and your PC is running on default settings, it's almost certainly an unnecessary risk.

I did this because I wanted to, because I enjoy the process. With any Intel CPU after the 4000 series, you don't NEED to do it, and even then.. if you've one of those you've likely been getting by without it just fine for 5 years by now!

[OldBloke]

Really nice write-up, Ben.

Not going anywhere near it

[Chaosphere]

Thanks OB. Very wise !

[BrotherTobious]

Isn't this the 2nd time you done this now I am sure you and TL were discussed it before?  So your a old hand at it now.

Again nice write up

[Chaosphere]

Yeah, when we did it before it was with a (much more intimidating) vice and hammer. With this new bit of kit, it's not half as bad. Quite enjoyable, if this is your thing!

[sulky_uk]

de-lidding your die, brought to a Thursday night at a Lan near you....


nice post BTW

[Evilntwisted]

I can dig out a load of old CPU's from work if you wanted to do some demo's

[Chaosphere]

de-lidding your die, brought to a Thursday night at a Lan near you....


nice post BTW

I believe pesteh and I are doing his 8700K this October :yahoo: No need for the dud demos, we go right to the real thing!

[Whitey]

I believe pesteh and I are doing his 8700K this October :yahoo: No need for the dud demos, we go right to the real thing!

Best leaved that for the end of the LAN  

Great post and brilliant result.

[Chaosphere]

As an update to this, I decided to take the lid off again, remove the silicon glue, and re-do it WITHOUT gluing the IHS back onto the CPU board. I'd read that the glue can increase temperatures, as those few mm lift the IHS from the CPU die, preventing optimal contact and thus heat transfer.

After removing the glue (it was a royal pain in the backside to scrape off), temperatures are now a whopping 15-20 degrees lower than before.

I'm currently sitting at 5.1Ghz with a voltage of 1.32, getting temps of 50-55 degrees during prime95 torture testing. This brings it to about 30-40 degrees cooler than before both delids. These are huge numbers, and I hope illustrate why overclockers delid their CPUs!

[DrunkenZombiee]

I didnt re-seal mine after delid and just dropped the IHS into the socket and used the heatsink so the IHS would definately maker contact with the Die. This does mean you will need to be sparing with the liquid metal as it may slide a little when you secure down. I decided not to use nailvarnish to coat around the die but i have friends where this has saved thew CPU from shorting and would recomend to those who are looking to delid.

Temps are 65-70 degrees with 8700k at 5GHz with a tiny air cooler in a 14 litre case. Delid took 20+ degrees of my of temps under syntheic workload but better than this I have a slient PC now when gaming (well you can still hear the mechanical HDD) but no noise form CPU and GPU playing overwatch etc.

The liquid metal will degrade over time. I check mine each 3 months and reapply if needed but it will dry out eventually and will slowly stain the IHS. Risky but worth it!

I have offered to do the same at the LAN for a few. WIll see if ia remember to bring the di-mate and liquid metal.

[Chaosphere]

Nail varnish was necessary on the 4770K as there are capacitors / transistors on the PCB, right next to the die. There is no need on the 8700, as the PCB is bare on that side. Easy!

Like you said, I was fairly light handed with the metal, so am not too concerned about leaks. I didn't seal my 4770K, left it for 4+ years like that, and didn't see have any problems. When I cracked it open recently, the metal hadn't really moved. It had stained the IHS, but otherwise it looked exactly like when I put it in there.

Temps hadn't changed either, so I'm not sure I buy the whole need to re-do it every few months - although you're certainly not the only one to say that, it just doesn't match up with what I saw with that chip.

Fun stuff! I'm bringing the delidder and liquid metal to the LAN for pesteh. :yahoo:

[Chaosphere]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4652[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4653[/ATTACH]

If you were wondering if it would be worth putting liquid metal on a 1080Ti... No. No it is not. This is an Asus Strix card that already has a chunky cooler and good air flow, thermals were good to begin with. Temps dropped maybe 5 degrees under load, at best, with this.

I suspect the limiting factor here is the temperature around the VRMs, rather than the die itself. Shame as there is little one can do to cool the VRMs here, short of removing the cooler altogether and putting the whole thing under H2O (which my case does not have room for).