Evolution

[Dr Sadako]

Originally posted by DogMeat@Dec 31 2004, 05:14 PM
If you're going to continue with competitive play, you need to separate it totally from TCS. While TCS play imposes the qualities required for good teamplay and provides a great way to spot, train and recruit players, once they make the competitive teams, there should be a separate competition management structure. One which allows the team leaders to hire and fire (figuratively speaking) without feeling obligated to the players for reasons of history or the number of LANs attended.

I agree. The connection between TCS and match structure is too related and that is not good for either structure.

[smilodon]

Agree. Doggers has identified the problem well.

[OldBloke]

Originally posted by Dr Sadako@Jan 1 2005, 11:22 AM
I agree. The connection between TCS and match structure is too related and that is not good for either structure.

[post=73529]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

How? I agree that our current wording for advancement to Charlie is biased towards playing matches (we can easily change that) but no one is going to make Charlie's play matches if they don't want to. Again, the availability tool lets the SLs pick a team from those Charlies that *do* want to play. The squad system merely helps to ensure that those that do want to play get to play on their preferred days.

I need to understand why playing TCS on our servers is related in any way to playing matches.

[smilodon]

Originally posted by OldBloke@Jan 1 2005, 12:33 PM
How? I agree that our current wording for advancement to Charlie is biased towards playing matches (we can easily change that) but no one is going to make Charlie's play matches if they don't want to. Again, the availability tool lets the SLs pick a team from those Charlies that *do* want to play. The squad system merely helps to ensure that those that do want to play get to play on their preferred days.

I need to understand why playing TCS on our servers is related in any way to playing matches.

[post=73535]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

I don't think it is. As I understand it the problem is that when Charlie membership once signified full membership to the dMw clan, it now means something different. While it works fine for the new intake of match playing community members it no longer represents the original group of friends who started the whole thing up. The move from clan to community may also be at the expense of the comradeship that comes from a tight nit group of friends who enjoy the social aspects of playing CS as much (or more than) the competative aspects.

There seems to be a need for some form of restructure that allows the old clan to remain distinct from the new macth playing community.
The Charlie Squad works fine for match play and anyone from Alpha upwards has signified they wish to play TCS on our servers. The group that no longer has an identity is the original clan that existed pre TCS. If this is the case then we seem to need some new identity for the 'inner group'?

[Dr Sadako]

Originally posted by OldBloke+Jan 1 2005, 02:33 PM-->

QUOTE(OldBloke @ Jan 1 2005, 02:33 PM)

How? I agree that our current wording for advancement to Charlie is biased towards playing matches (we can easily change that) but no one is going to make Charlie's play matches if they don't want to.
[/b]

And we are back again to the question: what is charlie supposed to be? I don't think there is a point discussing that until this is explained/decided.

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by Dr Sadako+Jan 1 2005, 01:55 PM-->

QUOTE(Dr Sadako @ Jan 1 2005, 01:55 PM)

And we are back again to the question: what is charlie supposed to be? I don't think there is a point discussing that until this is explained/decided.[/b]

Fair point.  But don't wait too long for the answer as I think what we have no as Charlie is not necessarily definable in an easy and concise manner.  We could define it for the future in a clear and concise manner, but then we would need to have decided what we want for the community - and that has relevance to the below.  

[Dr Sadako]

Originally posted by TeaLeaf@Jan 1 2005, 05:36 PM
At the moment that's where I think our strengths lie.  Running two matches on a Sunday evening _would_decimate the community server population for the night. 

[post=73550]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Well, we have a problem getting enough people on regular match days (except Sunday). I have said this before, why don't we just skip e.g. Wednesday and Thursday and have 2 matches on Sunday instead? It is obvious that our match playing charlies _want_ to play matches on Sundays. Then the match squads that leave on Wednesday and Thursday nights won't decimate on those days that imho are far more affected by 5 ppl leaving than on a Sunday.

[Dr Sadako]

Originally posted by OldBloke@Jan 1 2005, 02:33 PM
The squad system merely helps to ensure that those that do want to play get to play on their preferred days.

Zombie Squad - Members  

» 0ni0n - have played 2 matches since start
» Aga - never played a match or been available for one
» Albert - AFK most of the time due to work
» BlueBall - Plays when he can
» Gandalf - never played a match
» Jamoe - never played a match
» MAD_ness - Plays when work don't hinder him
» Sadako - almost always availble
» Sheepy - played 1 match since start
» Smite.Thee - Plays less because the structure (read his post above)
» Squonk - almost always available
» Target - played 2 matches

Looking at the 12 members of zombie squad we have 2 members that want/have the possibility to play every Thursday. Then we have BB and Madness that play when possible but not every week. Other than that there aren't any one playing. We could easily dissolve Zombie squad moving a majority of the members to shadows and transfer the remaining 4-5 to other squads.

[OldBloke]

Originally posted by smilodon+Jan 1 2005, 01:55 PM-->

QUOTE(smilodon @ Jan 1 2005, 01:55 PM)

I don't think it is. As I understand it the problem is that when Charlie membership once signified full membership to the dMw clan, it now means something different. While it works fine for the new intake of match playing community members it no longer represents the original group of friends who started the whole thing up. The move from clan to community may also be at the expense of the comradeship that comes from a tight nit group of friends who enjoy the social aspects of playing CS as much (or more than) the competative aspects.

[post=73547]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

My view is that all Charlies are full members of dMw. It may be perceived as something different but that's not how I see it.

Originally posted by smilodon@Jan 1 2005, 01:55 PM
There seems to be a need for some form of restructure that allows the old clan to remain distinct from the new macth playing community.

[post=73547]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Slight correction needed here. We are a TCS playing community, not a match playing community.

Originally posted by smilodon@Jan 1 2005, 01:55 PM
The Charlie Squad works fine for match play and anyone from Alpha upwards has signified they wish to play TCS on our servers. The group that no longer has an identity is the original clan that existed pre TCS. If this is the case then we seem to need some new identity for the 'inner group'?

[post=73547]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Careful. We've always fought hard to eliminate feelings of division and elitism. The last thing I want is to piss people off by introducing an 'official' clique.  

Originally posted by Dr Sadako@Jan 1 2005, 01:55 PM
And we are back again to the question: what is charlie supposed to be? I don't think there is a point discussing that until this is explained/decided.

[post=73548]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

OK. Personally I want Charlie to consist of people that have obviously bought-in to the notion and spirit of TCS. They should be mature, responsible, reliable, helpful, un-selfish and likeable. They should also be willing, active and co-operative participants on the servers and forum. I do not believe they must want to play matches.

[Doorman]

Oldie:OK. Personally I want Charlie to consist of people that have obviously bought-in to the notion and spirit of TCS. They should be mature, responsible, reliable, helpful, un-selfish and likeable. They should also be willing, active and co-operative participants on the servers and forum. I do not believe they must want to play matches.

If you substitute 'dMw' for 'Charlie' you'll have hit the nail on the head! That criteria should be applied to anyone before he gets to wear a -=[dMw]=- tag. I just did a quick count and unless I'm mistaken, there are more Charlies and admins of one sort or another (44), than Bravos (25). I'm not sure what that says, maybe it's easier to grant than deny applications. It seems to me the difficulty is how do you,
A: Retreat from Bravodom? You can't,I guess.
B: Revert to 'Don't call me, I'll call you' system? That didn't ought to be at all hard. Judging by the quality of most 'old school' members and the fact that me, and BlueBall, crept in under the wire, was a system that worked.
So, based on the assumption that if you're good enough to wear the wings you're good enough to be a Charlie and if we're all Charlies there is no need for Charlies.  :dribble:  Just make sure that the next guy that gets to wear the tag is someone that deserves it. In the past people got in because they were good players and would help in the matches. That,in my opinion, resulted in guys getting in that otherwise wouldn't Got a headache now. Going for a lie down.

[Dr Sadako]

We need to ask ourselves the following. If dMw is a TCS community and not a match community then why do we have Bravo at all? If you wear the tag you must be part of dMw or?

The community is about playing TCS so if we make a difference between Bravo and Charlie we shouldn't wear the same tag. Bravo is all about the TCS community and have nothing to do with matches. Then give bravo a tag that advertise that:

-=[TCS]=-

Let charlie be the core of dMw and only the core are allowed to wear the dMw wings.

-----

I really love matches and would like to excel and evolve my match play. When I read the comments above that we are all about TCS and nothing about matches, I get the message that I should go elsewhere if I want to play matches in a serious way.

[Doorman]

Originally posted by Dr Sadako+Jan 1 2005, 06:41 PM-->

QUOTE(Dr Sadako @ Jan 1 2005, 06:41 PM)

We need to ask ourselves the following. If dMw is a TCS community and not a match community then why do we have Bravo at all? If you wear the tag you must be part of dMw or?[/b]

Er...Didn't I just say that?

[Dr Sadako]

Originally posted by Doorman@Jan 1 2005, 08:50 PM
Er...Didn't I just say that?

Elitist. Or, otherwise known as 'Having your cake and eating it' Besides, it doesn't change anything. It just changes the labels.

[post=73571]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

No point caring then is there?

[Doorman]

No, I suppose not.

[OldBloke]

Originally posted by Dr Sadako+Jan 1 2005, 06:41 PM-->

QUOTE(Dr Sadako @ Jan 1 2005, 06:41 PM)

We need to ask ourselves the following. If dMw is a TCS community and not a match community then why do we have Bravo at all? If you wear the tag you must be part of dMw or?

[post=73570]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

When we changed from a clan to a community we made a statement to the CS playing public that basically stated 'We play CS like this. If you like the way we play then support our community by becoming a member'. But there's a major problem in doing this. Leagues and Ladders such as ED do not allow dual clanning. So anyone wanting to join the community but not wishing to leave their own clan either cannot wear the wings (the badge of a community member) or we have a level of membership that defines those members as non match playing - hence Bravo.

Originally posted by Dr Sadako+Jan 1 2005, 06:41 PM-->

QUOTE(Dr Sadako @ Jan 1 2005, 06:41 PM)

The community is about playing TCS so if we make a difference between Bravo and Charlie we shouldn't wear the same tag. Bravo is all about the TCS community and have nothing to do with matches. Then give bravo a tag that advertise that:

-=[TCS]=-

Let charlie be the core of dMw and only the core are allowed to wear the dMw wings.

[post=73570]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Or admit that lowering standards for Bravo membership was a mistake and needs to be rectified.