Here we go again.

[StrontiumDog]

The fact is we use a system to reward the effort thats put into raiding. The more you raid the more you get rewarded. If you never spend any dkp you get the pick of the loot, if you spend dkp like its water on every epic you like then people will always get the loot before you.
 
You yourself have had 14 epics to date from raiding and used roughly half of the dkp you earned. So of course there will be people that are higher than you and want the same loot. Infact Donnie during his time with us has only recieved 13 epic items from raids so you could say that you had actually benefited more than he had.
 
I don't begrudge anyone getting loot if they can use it, at the end of the day thats the system we use and everyone knows that when they join up.
 
There are many items I would like to improve my spell damage and I know that the ones I need/want are also wanted by a dozen or so people above me in DKP. Do I cry that its going to take me weeks and weeks to get what I want(need) to improve?, no because I know my turn will come and I can wait patiently to get rid of my last 2 blues.
 
As other people have mentioned you need to use the system to your advantage and if there is only 1 uber item that you want then you have to make sure you and only you are in a position to claim it, if that means saving dkp then thats what youll have to do.
 
Consider this...if you were a mage or a lock and saw a mageblade given to a loladin you wouldnt be too happy. well it's happened plenty of times because they had the DKP and the ability to use it and benefit from what it gives. I personally dont begrudge anyone asking for loot they can use.

[shadowscream]

Jemeny my sympathies, I can clearly understand your point though many don't pay attention to the ettential part of the thread.
there is little or none communication between the ML and the guys whispering for a loot = ML has to decide alone.
Highest DKp is MLs best friend as it will end discussions and flaming? obviously not.
 
To those who say it's only a game and- loot is not a problem? you will get it later or get better one. These are easy to say when it is not you it is about. And consider also this, we are not going to play WoW for the rest of our lifes so when something drops that many want it, justice must be done, and I see only 1 way of justice, those those who have played longer than the other have priority in this case not the "Highest Current DKP" but the "Highest Lifetime DKp" if this system is implemented everyone can get what they want in time. Ofc common sense is always needed and in this case it is up to marshals to decide. That's why marshal should have a history of what loot that player has got and if it really is a serious upgrade. If it is a huge upgrade to a player with 5K lifetime dkp and a small upgrade to a player with 5.5k lifetime dkp obviously it should go to the dude who makes huge use of it...
 
in case of hunters:
as Vargen mentioned, % to hit, agi and AP comes first for hunter.
I'd rather say(imo)
1) Descent ranged weapon
2) % to hit
3) Crit
ammo/arrow too ofc
then you can think about extra agi as agi is 52/crit for hunters
 
Rogues:
As Jemeny said in first post, what defines a melee class in their melee weapon so the most important thing to rogues imo:
Rogue need high damage, survivability is a small faktor because you must kill your opponent very fast. and that is what makes us deadly enemies
 
1) Descent Melee weapon
2) % to hit
3) Stat (agi)
 
then thing about other stuff.
 
Brutality Blade for hunters:
1) No % to hit
2) 9 AP
3) 1% crit
Score: 5 / 10
 
Brutality Blade for Rogues
1) It'll cut through metal !!
2) 9 AP
3) 1% crit
Score: 7 / 10
 
 
Ofc everyone is free to do what they want but beware your actions have an impact on others.
In the end I like to encourage Marshals take more time on deciding loot and have to agree with Jemeny here: The "Common Sense" is not working very well so please make some priority on loot.
consider my suggestion about "Lifetime DKp" instead of "current DKp".
 
to Vargen:
in main hand : http://www.thottbott.com/?i=51839
off hand : http://www.thottbot.com/?i=53861
&
Polearm: http://www.thottbott.com/?i=53926
 
 
P.S stop talking about the non sense I'm stepping down as defender Jemeny ... we have alot to do in BWl together

[StrontiumDog]

I found this interesting:
 
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=F16F96C1A2353D11A9B9945E8F7C634D?topicId=12884148&sid=1

[Yrthal]

To those who say it's only a game and- loot is not a problem? you will get it later or get better one. These are easy to say when it is not you it is about.

Not true.. I think EVERYONE that has been raiding for some time has tryed it. And it is that easy to say, bad luck next time!

fx
I could also use brutality blade to dualwield but thats no reason to flame about it.

Obsidian edge blade dropped also, wich i could use. but a warrior (with better weapon) got it. Np... it dropped again same evening then a pally got it.. and you know what? doesent matter cause it WILL drop again. (ppl with higher dkp are ofc allowed to get it cause they have earned it.

Spinal reaper dropped, and a hunter got it. And still doesent matter cause it will drop again.. have patience. Ppl wisper for items they can use cause its and improvement for them in one way or another. And what if it isent? well doesent matter cause again they have been raiding over and over to get that certain weapon, and they have also lost it to others, but they congratulated them and went to the runs over and over again untill they finally get it.

More important is if we show improvement in BWL, we will get better loot,  like Maladath. Chromaticlly tempered blade, aso. aso. and compared to these weaps brutality blade looks like a butter knife. So why get som bummed over 1 singel weapon that will drop again?

And as ppl have mentioned there are still, ZG and AQ runs wich also got weapons that actually are better in 1 way or another!

[Claw]

shadowscream 45 agi = 1 % to crit @ hunters

[Manny]

shadowscream 45 agi = 1 % to crit @ hunters

Correction 54 agi = 1% crit
 
Brutality Blade for hunters:
1) No % to hit
2) 9 AP
3) 1% crit
Score: 5 / 10
 
9 agi for hunters is 18 rap. score 8/10.

[shadowscream]

Correction 54 agi = 1% crit
 
Brutality Blade for hunters:
1) No % to hit
2) 9 AP
3) 1% crit
Score: 5 / 10
 
9 agi for hunters is 18 rap. score 8/10.

yeah but too bad hunters can't use it to throw arrow/bullets with it, if you need correction it goes like:
Brutality Blade for hunters:
1) No ranged weapon
2) No chance to hit
3) 1% crit
Score: 2 / 10

I was being mild

[Claw]

shadow who said that % to hit is just for hunters, rouges, and specialy warriors needs it, in the matter of that fact all classes needs it

[TeaLeaf]

And this whole thread demonstrates amply why Officers use a 'highest DKP' system.  Different people view things in different ways, so you'll never have a fully agreed priority list and you'll never have the time to work it up.

If you earn the DKP then expect to be able to bid on the item.  
If you're not highest then don't expect to win it - thus avoiding the potential feeling of loss.
Hope that a fellow player will consider raid benefit - it works real well in RG1 most of the time - but do not expect it - thus avoiding the potential feeling of  upset if it is not passed to you.
Raid more.  Then you'll have the DKP to whisper for it next time.

When RG1 was doing MC, I did not get an Azuresong Mageblade until after a pallie.  It happens to us all, it's a game, move on, earn DKP and spend it when you are top DKP on an item you want.

TL.

[shadowscream]

shadow who said that % to hit is just for hunters, rouges, and specialy warriors needs it, in the matter of that fact all classes needs it

a missed/dodged aimshot is a big loss to a hunter in the other hand if i get miss/dodge on BS or SS I don't lose full energy i can do it again after 2 sec, hunter loses mana and gets cooldown on aimshot.

[Lucian]

Btw Shadowscream, AGI = RAP anyway, so it doesn't matter where the AGI comes from, be it a neck item, a ring or a weapon.  RAP = basic dps, and is formed by all items.  
 
Therefore Manny's assessment stands.
 
Gotta say guys, particularly to Jemeny, I picked up a Brutality Blade after all the RG1 rogues had it, and I'm still using it, 9 months after because I haven't found a better melee weapon.  
 
On what possible grounds can you claim discrimination against rogues when quite clearly it is the best melee weapon DK will have access to for a long, long time?
 
As we say in Norn Iron, wind yer neck in, it'll drop again, and by the time it does you'll probably have something better in that hand anyway,

[Vargen]

to Vargen:
off hand : http://www.thottbot.com/?i=53861
&
Polearm: http://www.thottbott.com/?i=53926

Never seen those drop in Molten Core nor Blackwing Lair tbh
 

Brutality Blade for hunters:
1) No % to hit
2) 9 AP
3) 1% crit
Score: 5 / 10
 
Brutality Blade for Rogues
1) It'll cut through metal !!
2) 9 AP
3) 1% crit
Score: 7 / 10

OK, I might not be the best on maths for the weapons, but you are saying hunters shouldn't get it because you watch TV-Shop? Come on, sure a Rogue can hit hard with that, but it is probably one of the only blades for a Rogue that a Hunter would even consider. As Lucian said, he still uses the Brutality Blade. It is a damn good blade for any class, so please be serious.
 

To those who say it's only a game and- loot is not a problem? you will get it later or get better one. These are easy to say when it is not you it is about. And consider also this, we are not going to play WoW for the rest of our lifes so when something drops that many want it, justice must be done, and I see only 1 way of justice, those those who have played longer than the other have priority in this case not the "Highest Current DKP" but the "Highest Lifetime DKp" if this system is implemented everyone can get what they want in time. Ofc common sense is always needed and in this case it is up to marshals to decide. That's why marshal should have a history of what loot that player has got and if it really is a serious upgrade. If it is a huge upgrade to a player with 5K lifetime dkp and a small upgrade to a player with 5.5k lifetime dkp obviously it should go to the dude who makes huge use of it...

Stop fantasizing about alternate systems. There are a lot of systems and ways to do loot. And they all have ONE big fat flaw in common; There will ALLWAYS be someone unhappy about not getting something or dissagreeing with the system. This is a Field Marshal call, and it has been up for discussion before.
The system stays, you knew about the system before you started raiding.
 
My greatest fear with RG2 is that the members lack a sence of belonging and the bonding as a team. If loot is such a HUGE issue, Rogues and Hunters should literarily put down your blades and discuss in a mature fasion. Try to map who wants what and so on. Sure you don't have to be friends, but I would be glad if you could sort this out in a more friendly way then crying like children and flaming on the forums.
 
I believe someone mentioned communication to be a key. I don't think flames and rants was what they had in mind. Gear gets a lot less class spesific the further you get in BWL, so you will need to work together.

[shadowscream]

Come on, sure a Rogue can hit hard with that, but it is probably one of the only blades for a Rogue that a Hunter would even consider. As Lucian said, he still uses the Brutality Blade. It is a damn good blade for any class, so please be serious.
 

I hope you're right, and I am serious, what do you say to this: http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15664 ?
btw I'm not dreaming about new systems, just pointing that the ones who have put more time in MC/OL should have greater priority to those who recently joined and stacking up dkp for loot.
I do however agree with you, we should make a list over the things we want and talk about it so we know who wants what.
 
Starting with me:
 
I've been dreaming of a sword build since I hit 60 but as you know it is hard to find descent blade.
List of things I need from MC&OL:
1)Vis'kag the Bloodletter
2)Brutality Blade.

[Vargen]

Well, soon enough those will be traded for Maladath, Runed Blade of the Black Flight and Chromatically Tempered Sword. But the hunter will still be using his Brutality blade.

[StrontiumDog]

just pointing that the ones who have put more time in MC/OL should have greater priority to those who recently joined and stacking up dkp for loot.

The point is that the people who have raided the longest have already been rewarded by the epics they have already recieved. Again if you choose not to take epics then you would be high up the dkp list to get that special item you want.
 
Just to use the example of the two players this thread was created about:
 
Donnie first raided 10 days after Jemeny started and as a result is currently 235 behind in lifetime DKP which is about 3 full MC runs worth of DKP. However going by the DKP site both have attended the same amount of MC runs (41) so going by what you say, even though Jemeny started raiding first in MC the fact is that from that date to now, they have both put the same amout of effort into MC having attended the same numeber of runs, therefore you can argue that they have an equal call on such an item as the blade.
 
However, Donnie has had 1 more Onxyia Kill than Jemeny so by your logic (MC/Ony) that means donnie would have priority anyway.....