HEROIC Hagara the Stormbinder - DEFEATED 04/03/12

[Arcticfire]

@jes, nothing new there!!!

gz on the kill guys!

[TeaLeaf]

[hubbah]

Any news on what happend last night and how we can avoid it for Sunday?

[Azunai]

From my point of view (logs would have to confirm/deny), it was mostly down to personal errors again. I think Lightning Phase/Soak phase went pretty well, but we keep losing people on Ice phases.

- Don't clip Ice walls. The damage from the bubble is not immediatly fatal, so there's little reason to not be safe with the walls. Of course don't exaggerate either.
- Call a dispell only once you're inside the bubble, and only go out when it's gone. We had a couple of Ice patches because folks called too early or went back out too soon.
- Don't try to Heroic Leap through the Ice Wall. There's little gain, it only works half of the time and you're not Evil Kenievel and never will be, you silly dog.

[TeaLeaf]

Any news on what happend last night and how we can avoid it for Sunday?

I think one of the other officers has logs from Hagara, I've uploaded the first 3 boss logs.

From what I heard on TS it was mainly personal errors or blocks being not quite placed correctly and causing LOS issues (bar one try when 2 healers got blocked which led to a focused assault tank death).

[Slush]

From what I heard on TS it was mainly personal errors or blocks being not quite placed correctly and causing LOS issues (bar one try when 2 healers got blocked which led to a focused assault tank death).

I'll gladly admit that Ice Phase is causing big issues for me. Here's some explanation.

What I do:
-I fixed done some fixing to my bars (prior to thursdays raid) to make my fast heals more available.
-I took Tessy's advice on Thursday with moving.. and it helped slightly; fewer deaths after.
-Im poppin my SG to be able to run while casting. (Only lasts 20 seconds).
-Insta Ghost Wolf Form helps now and then to get in/out of Watery Area.
-Im using my gift of the Naaru on either one of my dps'ers or myself. (HoT).
-Im trying to keep Riptide (hot) up on me and my 2 dps'ers.
-Im using both fast, low efficency heals(HS) and slow ones (GHW) depending on next Ice Wall.
-Earth Shield on one in my Pylon group.

What the problem is:
The problem for me is... Doing dispells before debuffed person reaches 6 stacks. This usually interrupts a GHW which might be crucial. I then have to run in to avoid Ice Wave. When Im inside I see that Hubbah is on i.e. 25 %. This means I have to heal him... and myself before I run out. But the problem is that I will then have to stay in for too long just to avoid the next Ice Wave. This heal-interrupting and in/out'ing slowly eats us until one dies. I cant believe how incredible long this phase is. It just feels like it never ends :sad:

What can be done?
I would ofcourse hope for a different strategy (there are 2 other mentioned in Ice Veins guide), as this is not working for me at all.
If anyone got any other advice in addition to the list mention above... feel free to share, because I really feel I need a "lucky" try with few dispells + few "Icicles" in Ice Phases to keep our little Pylon group up.
I feel I'm lacking the utility as a resto shaman to do this phase the way we currently are... and thats the first time I've had that feeling in 4.x. With that in mind; I am working on this and will win... Its just a matter of time.

[Siffredi]

I'll gladly admit that Ice Phase is causing big issues for me. Here's some explanation.

What I do:
-I fixed done some fixing to my bars (prior to thursdays raid) to make my fast heals more available.
-I took Tessy's advice on Thursday with moving.. and it helped slightly; fewer deaths after.
-Im poppin my SG to be able to run while casting. (Only lasts 20 seconds).
-Insta Ghost Wolf Form helps now and then to get in/out of Watery Area.
-Im using my gift of the Naaru on either one of my dps'ers or myself. (HoT).
-Im trying to keep Riptide (hot) up on me and my 2 dps'ers.
-Im using both fast, low efficency heals(HS) and slow ones (GHW) depending on next Ice Wall.
-Earth Shield on one in my Pylon group.

What the problem is:
The problem for me is... Doing dispells before debuffed person reaches 6 stacks. This usually interrupts a GHW which might be crucial. I then have to run in to avoid Ice Wave. When Im inside I see that Hubbah is on i.e. 25 %. This means I have to heal him... and myself before I run out. But the problem is that I will then have to stay in for too long just to avoid the next Ice Wave. This heal-interrupting and in/out'ing slowly eats us until one dies. I cant believe how incredible long this phase is. It just feels like it never ends :sad:

What can be done?
I would ofcourse hope for a different strategy (there are 2 other mentioned in Ice Veins guide), as this is not working for me at all.
If anyone got any other advice in addition to the list mention above... feel free to share, because I really feel I need a "lucky" try with few dispells + few "Icicles" in Ice Phases to keep our little Pylon group up.
I feel I'm lacking the utility as a resto shaman to do this phase the way we currently are... and thats the first time I've had that feeling in 4.x. With that in mind; I am working on this and will win... Its just a matter of time.

If i were you i would consult with Puja since he was in healing for our kill. Im sure he has some tricks up his sleeve... :-)

[Slush]

If i were you i would consult with Puja since he was in healing for our kill. Im sure he has some tricks up his sleeve... :-)

30 mins before end-raid on thursday I asked to be swapped out for Puja, but RL told me he had the similar problems. Last sundays kill I suspect Puja had The selfdispelling-dispersion-using TL aswell. But yeh, gold call: Puuuuuuja? Ant tips?

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Im also having problems with healing the ice phase and I have a lot more (on the run) spells... Same issue slush getting in that big heal when needed feels almost impossible.

[Siffredi]

Any tips i can give is that i move ahead of the others so i follow the ice wave a bit around, so i get more standing still time.
Else i use my instant heals and heal cooldowns to keep them up. No doubt Ice phase is the most difficult of the phases.

[Niel]

For me i almost only ever use riptide hastened GHW - throw in a Gift of the Naaru and a Spiritwalkers grace ( i try to hold on to that as long as possible before using it as it gets you out of any emergency as it is just so OP for Ice phase healing ). The riptide i cycle around and try to keep as much uptime on everyone as possible.

I do avoid the smaller heals generally as the casting time > benefit ratio is not great and the issue in ice phase is always that dependant on what crap is on the ground your casting time gets eaten into due to constant movement - so i pretty much stick to the biggest bang per sec heals due to the limited casting time avail.

When i've done it i have of course had TL who could dispell - not that it stopped me dispelling him and it is not an issue to do the dispells.

Apart from a couple of cockups ( clipping walls when runnign around them ) the ice phase has never stressed me that much.

When running around walls - i do try to run into bubble and when running back out i try to run in the direction of the wall that just passed me and not towards the wall that is coming next.......doing a J type run gives you time that is valuable back.

[TeaLeaf]

For RGW:
Read this thread, there's a hell of a lot of development work in here to help you understand the problems RGT faced and the solutions found.  Then watch the RGT kill video, which has a lot of tactical info in it which should be a great help.   Then ask questions about things which are still not clear please!

[Treach]

My idea about initial positioning: Why not have the tank (me) stand behind the blue marker at due north? That way the melee is placed perfectly for the lightning phase and everyone is on the split line for the ice phase.

Did RGT try this and if so how did it turn out?

[hubbah]

I dont think we tried it, but the positioning at the start should not really matter. as long as your on the side with the rest curled around the tank to soak lances

[TeaLeaf]

It was more a visibility issue, it's clearer to look at without a marker, so RGT stand just to the side of the blue marker to be in 'clear air', not as far around as you were on some tries.   As Hubbah said though, slightly left or right does not matter too much due to the fact that whichever phase is next you have time to move to it before the pylons/add/phase become active.

Keep in mind that by being clockwise of Blue at the pull, you are almost next to the Lightning add when it spawns, and very close to the clockwise Frost pylon when it spawns
AND
The anticlockwise frost phase group will be closer to their anticlockwise pylon in the frost phase, i.e. the raid does not have to group up to then split, you are already split by the initial positioning which suits the frost phase, and doesn't matter on the lightning phase. (keep in mind that the anticlockwise group should be made up of the lefthand soak pair and the healer from the mid soak pair, thus all 3 are on the correct side and closest to their anticlockwise pylon at the start.