Mogu'shan Vaults - Elegon - DEFEATED 01/11/12

[Switchback]

We have 2 people assigned to the Protector full time, then all turn and burn it for the last 25%.

Then why are we taking so much damage ?....stacks what?.....confused.com

[Slush]

Then why are we taking so much damage ?....stacks what?.....confused.com

When we are having problems with enounters, I usually go icy-veins.com and read through the boss abilities again. I usually go back to the forums with 1-2 suggestion that I hope will work. LIke the 4+4 strat thats mentioned earlier in this thread.



What Puja means with "clearing stacks" is that ranged and healers stand on the green line (between outer and inner ring) through phase 1. You can then just jump to clear stacks of Overcharged. You dont need to move out of the inner part to remove your stacks. The more stacks you have, the more damage taken. Stand on the line. Jump to remove the stacks.

You will have high uptime on your Touch of the titans if you do it that way.

When you have boss at 85% and you are entering phase 2, all your rnaged and healers should be standing on the line again (but then spread out to dps the sparks), jumping to reset stacks.

[Whitey]

the tanks at all times are in range of the healers and the healers do not have to move to heal tanks..........if the healer can't heal the tank it's because the tank is in the wrong place and healers should not be running in and out to get range.

Hopefully RGW healers are nice enough to let the tanks know if they are slightly out of range rather than just let them die and tell them later. :devil:

[Niel]

I said this because it seems the healers are running in/out to heal the tanks due to range...........this needs fixing ASAP.

[TeaLeaf]

Then why are we taking so much damage ?....stacks what?.....confused.com

When you stand in the circle you get 1 buff and 1 debuff.  The buff is immediate  and gives you a dps boost on the boss.   The other is a stacking debuff that increases the damage you take.   You want to keep this stacking debuff minimised as much as possible for obvious reasons, so you reset the debuff stacks (and get back to 100% damage) by leaving the 'glass floor' area or, positioning yourself right on the outer edge of the circle such that when you stand still you still get the dps buff, but when you jump the stacking debuff is reset.

Comparing these 2 logs:
RGT's first kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g7zwzra4l6ty50v8/?s=10688&e=11263
RGW's best try: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xhxi2gt0c9f64fk4/?s=7700&e=8200

Total Annihilation:
RGT ave 174k taken per player, RGW 200k per player.    This is as a result of RGW stacks being too high.   It's a frikkin long cast time (3 seconds) and you've just killed the Protector, so you know you are about to get hit by a big KABOOM! so reset your stacks before he blows up!  The extra damage is wasted healer mana.

The other difference is that RGT push the boss below 85% and into P2 after only 2 Protectors spawning (RGW take 3), so that's a hell of a lot less healing needed overall.  That means RGT took 10m damage from 6 Total Annihilations, whereas RGW healed through 18m on your best try with 9 Protectors in total.  

That's 2m damage per extra Protector and an extra 250k damage being taken per Protector, so the key to the RGW's healer mana and damage taken is here, RGT's first kill went 2 Protectors in first P1 (1P1), 3 Protectors in second P1 (2P1) and that's your dps target.   RGW's best try went 3 in 1P1 and 6 in 2P1.  Handle those adds right *and* put the boss under 85% and 50% with the right number of adds and all of a sudden the damage taken and healer mana becomes less of an issue.

Remember, after 1P2 RGT had the advantage of having done 4 Energy Charges which gave 5 stacks on the boss equating to a permanent +50% damage, so that helped RGT get through 2P1 faster.  Try for 4 Energy charges in P1 if you can, it really helps.  RGW's best try only gave you 4 stacks (3 waves of Energy Charge killed) to boost damage in 2P1.

DPS on the Energy Charge (only comparing 1P2)
There is a fairly big difference here in burst dps between RGT & RGW and it accounts for why RGT did 4 and RGW only did 3 Energy Charges in 1P2.   The following logs only compare damage done to the Energy Charges in 1P2:

RGT first kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g7zwzra4l6ty50v8/analyze/dd/source/?s=10762&e=10839&target=112
RGW best try: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xhxi2gt0c9f64fk4/analyze/dd/source/?s=7814&e=7878&target=71

For further reference as specs/builds have changed, here's RGT most recent kill:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9abbwjwpvuxqj5a2/analyze/dd/source/?s=7993&e=8071&target=100

There's a fairly big difference in spike damage from some classes, so it's worth investigating.

It is well worth looking at these tables and then at specific players and the spells they use as it gives you hints and tips as to how you could do more damage in this phase.   Look at all 3 logs when comparing though as specs change.  For example I used Cascade for the first kill but now use Halo, Midd was Frost for the first kill but now uses Fire, etc.   If there's a player of your class then compare the type of spells used and see where the differences are as they add up to the dps difference.



Everything below here is fine:

Stability Flux:
This is the AOE damage given out by the add when <25% HP.   RGW numbers are good here and actually slightly better than RGT's first kill numbers which means you are killing the add ok from 25% to 0%.  No change needed here imo.

Cosmic Spark damage taken seems fine and again better than RGT's first kill.  This means adds are generally be tanked by tanks and not by the healers/dps.

Energy Charge's Discharge damage taken for RGW is about the same as RGT's first kill.   This means people had about the same number of stacks when the Energy Charge was killed and it does its AOE.

[Riggy]

the healers are having to run alot during p1 yes!! but we did ask tanks to be in range........... not happening ...... we have to run, heal, reset etc

[Ammon]

I thought the heal team stood on the border of the energy vortex thing and hit jump to make the stacks drop.
correct me if i'm wrong ofc, but the tanks position in range of that is kinda vital.

[TeaLeaf]

Talked to Riggy about this last night - RGW clearly need to work on tank positioning and healer/raid positioning so that this does not happen.  I'll be around tomorrow night to assist with this if needed.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

I'm usually prio heals on tanks and stand next to the big button most of the time. The tank on the boss can be a bit flakey for range but with a bit of fine tuning you can reach. So if everything runs to plan I can get away with almost no movement

[Riggy]

thanks guys that does help ........... i will yell if tanks out of range but yeah, stacks range etc and we should be all good

[Swedeguy]

For me it's still those proc:s that eludes me when I really need them. Working on saving a Pyro:s for those charges phase. And I'm also going to have a look on Frost again. LFR seems like a good "dummy" place to practice. The big adds are fine. It's just that proc on the charges that's faltering on me.

/Mats

[Switchback]

The positioning worked alot better. Just who ever is tanking when we swap sides needs to move round bit quicker so healers get ranged.

Main issue is dps. Its all over the show and so varied between raiders. We are having trouble with the orbs and just overall dps.

Once logs are uploaded we all need to use them to tweak what we can.

[Sithvid]

My problems tonight :
DPS on the large add, I use Target assist and i am confused ( not facetiously so) that when we have assigned dps on the boss, until the call from Tan that there are  4 5 6 or 7 dps on the add when its first pulled.
Kill the add!! i have stayed dps the add, but notice others run off to their marker before the add is dead, is that ok? i think it probably is and i should have ran to my position.
Killing my orb seems problematic i use 3 dots BA(on boss CD) SS ES and AS which I can run out off focus.
I know others could see it, but my pillar was not visible, it appeared when the pillar to my right (which was visible ) was killed..... then i fell in the hole....
I feel like i was truly Sith tonight sorry

[hermioneg]

@ sweed

I analyzed the log... I realized that the best way to do dps on the orb for a fire mage is use scorch on boss (or big add) till pyro! or heat up procs (movement rotation)..and preserve it for orb spawns, use on it causes -50% of health and after this continue with scorch on orb (much fast and there are more chances that  heat up procs). on logs you used fireblast and i done about 2M dmg over you on orbs ( if your pyro! procs you humble me  :sad:)

@ hermi

you try to do more dps  :ranting2: ..... no seriously .. I did my best but unfortunately right now my dps is between 50 and 60K .. very procs depending ( I know that what I am about to say will **** Switch ... but be below 3 ilvl means having at least 3 pieces 476 against many 483/489, dunno if it costs 20k less dps but I assure you that I did my best ).... but seriously you think frost would be better?? :help2:

@ sithy

I saw you keep hitting the boss instead of the pylon and didnt understand why, now i know.....I hope you will be able to repair it

[hubbah]

Hi Sith,

Like i said yesterday in guild chat, Dont use dots on the orbs.
Use BA on the boss just before orb spawns to trigger lock and load procs.
Make sure you are in the circle for 100% extra dmg.
And use Explosive shot / glaive / Arcane shot on Orb. If it isnt dead by then ( which it should be if you get a crit on one of em ) fill with Cobra shot.
On the 3rd Orb i usually pop my Direbeast for that extra bit of dps ( and focus for another free Arcane shot ) and on the 4th one i pop my trinket for extra haste ( faster cobra shot ).

I usually dont have mutch problems with the Orbs, only when i get No Crits in those shots which happens like 1 time out of a 100

If you still have problems with this save your other cooldowns for this phase ( this is the most imporant bit of the fight tbh, more stacks on boss is more dmg he takes ).

If there is anything i can help you with over the next week just give me a whisp or something ( same for Tanales if he has any problems ofcourse )

Also on te big add i dont think every dps should be helping. Having one full time on it and 1 on backup should be more then enough to get it down before it gets dragged out.
Having Doting classes switch seems like a huge DPS loss to me, but i can be wrong ofcourse \

Edit:

I had the same problem as sith is having with the pillars not showing up till 10 seconds later when i was Raiding on Yaril's laptop a while ago.
This was due to the graphics setting were set on low ( i did that due to lag issues ) when i put these up to high i dident have problems anymore ( but lag ofcourse )